第17章

Cle。Stranger，IthinkthatIseehowaproofoftheirvaluemaybeobtained。Thisdiscussionofoursappearstometohavebeensingularlyfortunate，andjustwhatIatthismomentwant；mostauspiciouslyhaveyouandmyfriendMegilluscomeinmyway。ForI

willtellyouwhathashappenedtome；andIregardthecoincidenceasasortofomen。ThegreaterpartofCreteisgoingtosendoutacolony，andtheyhaveentrustedthemanagementoftheaffairtotheCnosians；andtheCnosiangovernmenttomeandnineothers。Andtheydesireustogivethemanylawswhichweplease，whethertakenfromtheCretanmodelorfromanyother；andtheydonotmindabouttheirbeingforeigniftheyarebetter。Grantmethenthisfavour，whichwillalsobeagaintoyourselves：-Letusmakeaselectionfromwhathasbeensaid，andthenletusimagineaStateofwhichwewillsupposeourselvestobetheoriginalfounders。Thusweshallproceedwithourenquiry，and，atthesametime，Imayhavetheuseoftheframeworkwhichyouareconstructing，forthecitywhichisincontemplation。

Ath。Goodnews，Cleinias；ifMegillushasnoobjection，youmaybesurethatIwilldoallinmypowertopleaseyou。

Cle。Thankyou。

Meg。AndsowillI。

Cle。Excellent；andnowletusbegintoframetheState。

BOOKIV

AthenianStranger。Andnow，whatwillthiscitybe？Idonotmeantoaskwhatisorwillhereafterbethenameoftheplace；thatmaybedeterminedbytheaccidentoflocalityoroftheoriginalsettlement-ariverorfountain，orsomelocaldeitymaygivethesanctionofanametothenewly-foundedcity；butIdowanttoknowwhatthesituationis，whethermaritimeorinland。

Cleinias。Ishouldimagine，Stranger，thatthecityofwhichwearespeakingisabouteightystadiadistantfromthesea。

Ath。Andarethereharboursontheseaboard？

Cle。Excellentharbours，Stranger；therecouldnotbebetter。

Ath。Alas!whataprospect!Andisthesurroundingcountryproductive，orinneedofimportations？

Cle。Hardlyinneedofanything。

Ath。AndisthereanyneighbouringState？

Cle。Nonewhatever，andthatisthereasonforselectingtheplace；indaysofold，therewasamigrationoftheinhabitants，andtheregionhasbeendesertedfromtimeimmemorial。

Ath。Andhastheplaceafairproportionofhill，andplain，andwood？

Cle。LiketherestofCreteinthat。

Ath。Youmeantosaythatthereismorerockthanplain？

Cle。Exactly。

Ath。Thenthereissomehopethatyourcitizensmaybevirtuous：hadyoubeenonthesea，andwellprovidedwithharbours，andanimportingratherthanaproducingcountry，somemightysaviourwouldhavebeenneeded，andlawgiversmorethanmortal，ifyouwereevertohaveachanceofpreservingyourstatefromdegeneracyanddiscordanceofmanners。Butthereiscomfortintheeightystadia；althoughtheseaistoonear，especiallyif，asyousay，theharboursaresogood。

Stillwemaybecontent。Theseaispleasantenoughasadailycompanion，buthasindeedalsoabitterandbrackishquality；

fillingthestreetswithmerchantsandshopkeepers，andbegettinginthesoulsofmenuncertainandunfaithfulways-makingthestateunfriendlyandunfaithfulbothtoherowncitizens，andalsotoothernations。Thereisaconsolation，therefore，inthecountryproducingallthingsathome；andyet，owingtotheruggednessofthesoil，notprovidinganythingingreatabundance。Hadtherebeenabundance，theremighthavebeenagreatexporttrade，andagreatreturnofgoldandsilver；which，aswemaysafelyaffirm，hasthemostfatalresultsonaStatewhoseaimistheattainmentofjustandnoblesentiments：thiswassaidbyus，ifyouremember，inthepreviousdiscussion。

Cle。Iremember，andamofopinionthatwebothwereandareintheright。

Ath。Well，butletmeask，howisthecountrysuppliedwithtimberforship-building？

Cle。Thereisnofirofanyconsequence，norpine，andnotmuchcypress；andyouwillfindverylittlestone-pineorplane-wood，whichshipwrightsalwaysrequirefortheinteriorofships。

Ath。Thesearealsonaturaladvantages。

Cle。Whyso？

Ath。Becausenocityoughttobeeasilyabletoimitateitsenemiesinwhatismischievous。

Cle。Howdoesthatbearuponanyofthemattersofwhichwehavebeenspeaking？

Ath。Remember，mygoodfriend，whatIsaidatfirstabouttheCretanlaws，thattheylooktoonethingonly，andthis，asyoubothagreed，waswar；andIrepliedthatsuchlaws，insofarastheytendedtopromotevirtue，weregood；butinthattheyregardedapartonly，andnotthewholeofvirtue，Idisapprovedofthem。AndnowIhopethatyouinyourturnwillfollowandwatchmeifIlegislatewithaviewtoanythingbutvirtue，orwithaviewtoapartofvirtueonly。ForIconsiderthatthetruelawgiver，likeanarcher，aimsonlyatthatonwhichsomeeternalbeautyisalwaysattending，anddismisseseverythingelse，whetherwealthoranyotherbenefit，whenseparatedfromvirtue。Iwassayingthattheimitationofenemieswasabadthing；andIwasthinkingofacaseinwhichamaritimepeopleareharassedbyenemies，astheAthenianswerebyMinos(Idonotspeakfromanydesiretorecallpastgrievances)；buthe，asweknow，wasagreatnavalpotentate，whocompelledtheinhabitantsofAtticatopayhimacrueltribute；andinthosedaystheyhadnoshipsofwarastheynowhave，norwasthecountryfilledwithship-timber，andthereforetheycouldnotreadilybuildthem。Hencetheycouldnotlearnhowtoimitatetheirenemyatsea，andinthisway，becomingsailorsthemselves，directlyrepeltheirenemies。Betterforthemtohavelostmanytimesoverthesevenyouths，thanthatheavy-armedandstationarytroopsshouldhavebeenturnedintosailors，andaccustomedtobeoftenleapingonshore，andagaintocomerunningbacktotheirships；orshouldhavefanciedthattherewasnodisgraceinnotawaitingtheattackofanenemyanddyingboldly；andthatthereweregoodreasons，andplentyofthem，foramanthrowingawayhisarms，andbetakinghimselftoflight-whichisnotdishonourable，aspeoplesay，atcertaintimes。Thisisthelanguageofnavalwarfare，andisanythingbutworthyofextraordinarypraise。Forweshouldnotteachbadhabits，leastofalltothebestpartofthecitizens。YoumaylearntheevilofsuchapracticefromHomer，bywhomOdysseusisintroduced，rebukingAgamemnonbecausehedesirestodrawdowntheshipstotheseaatatimewhentheAchaeansarehardpressedbytheTrojans-hegetsangrywithhim，andsays：

Who，atatimewhenthebattleisinfullcry，biddesttodragthewell-benchedshipsintothesea，thattheprayersoftheTrojansmaybeaccomplishedyetmore，andhighruinfallsuponus。FortheAchaeanswillnotmaintainthebattle，whentheshipsaredrawnintothesea，buttheywilllookbehindandwillceasefromstrife；inthatthecounselwhichyougivewillproveinjurious。

Youseethathequiteknewtriremesonthesea，intheneighbourhoodoffightingmen，tobeanevil；-lionsmightbetrainedinthatwaytoflyfromaherdofdeer。Moreover，navalpowerswhichowetheirsafetytoships，donotgivehonourtothatsortofwarlikeexcellencewhichismostdeservingofit。Forhewhooweshissafetytothepilotandthecaptain，andtheoarsman，andallsortsofratherinferiorpersonscannotrightlygivehonourtowhomhonourisdue。Buthowcanastatebeinarightconditionwhichcannotjustlyawardhonour？

Cle。Itishardlypossible，Iadmit；andyet，Stranger，weCretansareinthehabitofsayingthatthebattleofSalamiswasthesalvationofHellas。

Ath。Why，yes；andthatisanopinionwhichiswidelyspreadbothamongHellenesandbarbarians。ButMegillusandIsayrather，thatthebattleofMarathonwasthebeginning，andthebattleofPlataeathecompletion，ofthegreatdeliverance，andthatthesebattlesbylandmadetheHellenesbetter；whereasthesea-fightsofSalamisandArtemisium-forImayaswellputthembothtogether-madethemnobetter，ifImaysaysowithoutoffenceaboutthebattleswhichhelpedtosaveus。Andinestimatingthegoodnessofastate，weregardboththesituationofthecountryandtheorderofthelaws，consideringthatthemerepreservationandcontinuanceoflifeisnotthemosthonourablethingformen，asthevulgarthink，butthecontinuanceofthebestlife，whilewelive；andthatagain，ifIamjotmistaken，isremarkwhichhasbeenmadealready。

Cle。Yes。

Ath。Thenwehaveonlytoaskwhetherwearetakingthecoursewhichweacknowledgetobethebestforthesettlementandlegislationofstates。

Cle。Thebestbyfar。

Ath。Andnowletmeproceedtoanotherquestion：Whoaretobethecolonists？MayanyonecomeoutofallCrete；andistheideathatthepopulationintheseveralstatesistoonumerousforthemeansofsubsistence？ForIsupposethatyouarenotgoingtosendoutageneralinvitationtoanyHellenewholikestocome。AndyetIobservethattoyourcountrysettlershavecomefromArgosandAeginaandotherpartsofHellas。Tellme，then，whencedoyoudrawyourrecruitsinthepresententerprise？

Cle。TheywillcomefromallCrete；andofotherHellenes，Peloponnesianswillbemostacceptable。For，asyoutrulyobserve，thereareCretansofArgivedescent；andtheraceofCretanswhichhasthehighestcharacteratthepresentdayistheGortynian，andthishascomefromGortysinthePeloponnesus。

Ath。Citiesfindcolonizationinsomerespectseasierifthecolonistsareonerace，whichlikeaswarmofbeesissentoutfromasinglecountry，eitherwhenfriendsleavefriends，owingtosomepressureofpopulationorothersimilarnecessity，orwhenaportionofastateisdrivenbyfactionstoemigrate。Andtherehavebeenwholecitieswhichhavetakenflightwhenutterlyconqueredbyasuperiorpowerinwar。This，however，whichisinonewayanadvantagetothecolonistorlegislator，inanotherpointofviewcreatesadifficulty。Thereisanelementoffriendshipinthecommunityofrace，andlanguage，andlanguage，andlaws，andincommontemplesandritesofworship；butcolonieswhichareofthishomogeneoussortareapttokickagainstanylawsoranyformofconstitutiondifferingfromthatwhichtheyhadathome；andalthoughthebadnessoftheirownlawsmayhavebeenthecauseofthefactionswhichprevailedamongthem，yetfromtheforceofhabittheywouldfainpreservetheverycustomswhichweretheirruin，andtheleaderofthecolony，whoistheirlegislator，findsthemtroublesomeandrebellious。Ontheotherhand，theconfluxofseveralpopulationsmightbemoredisposedtolistentonewlaws；butthen，tomakethemcombineandpulltogether，astheysayofhorses，isamostdifficulttask，andtheworkofyears。Andyetthereisnothingwhichtendsmoretotheimprovementofmankindthanlegislationandcolonization。

Cle。Nodoubt；butIshouldliketoknowwhyyousayso。

Ath。Mygoodfriend，Iamafraidthatthecourseofmyspeculationsisleadingmetosaysomethingdepreciatoryoflegislators；butifthewordbetothepurpose，therecanbenoharm。Andyet，whyamIdisquieted，forIbelievethatthesameprincipleappliesequallytoallhumanthings？

Cle。Towhatareyoureferring？

Ath。Iwasgoingtosaythatmanneverlegislates，butaccidentsofallsorts，whichlegislateforusinallsortsofways。Theviolenceofwarandthehardnecessityofpovertyareconstantlyoverturninggovernmentsandchanginglaws。Andthepowerofdiscasehasoftencausedinnovationsinthestate，whentherehavebeenpestilences，orwhentherehasbeenasuccessionofbadseasonscontinuingduringmanyyears。Anyonewhoseesallthis，naturallyrushestotheconclusionofwhichIwasspeaking，thatnomortallegislatesinanything，butthatinhumanaffairschanceisalmosteverything。Andthismaybesaidoftheartsofthesailor，andthepilot，andthephysician，andthegeneral，andmayseemtobewellsaid；andyetthereisanotherthingwhichmaybesaidwithequaltruthofallofthem。

Cle。Whatisit？