第18章

Thereisaphysicaldifferencebetweenthetwowhich，inmyjudgment，willprobablyforeverforbidtheirlivingtogetheronthefootingofperfectequality；andinasmuchasitbecomesanecessitythattheremustbeadifference，I，aswellasJudgeDouglas，aminfavoroftheracetowhichIbelonghavingthesuperiorposition。I

haveneversaidanythingtothecontrary，butIholdthat，notwithstandingallthis，thereisnoreasonintheworldwhythenegroisnotentitledtoalltherightsenumeratedintheDeclarationofIndependence，——therightoflife，liberty，andthepursuitofhappiness。Iholdthatheisasmuchentitledtotheseasthewhiteman。IagreewithJudgeDouglasthatheisnotmyequalinmanyrespects，certainlynotincolor，perhapsnotinintellectualandmoralendowments；butintherighttoeatthebread，withouttheleaveofanybodyelse，whichhisownhandearns，heismyequalandtheequalofJudgeDouglas，andtheequalofeveryotherman。"

IhavechieflyintroducedthisforthepurposeofmeetingtheJudge’schargethatthequotationhetookfrommyCharlestonspeechwaswhatIwouldsaydownSouthamongtheKentuckians，theVirginians，etc。，butwouldnotsayintheregionsinwhichwassupposedtobemoreoftheAbolitionelement。Inowmakethiscomment：ThatspeechfromwhichIhavenowreadthequotation，andwhichistheregivencorrectly——perhapstoomuchsoforgoodtaste——wasmadeawayupNorthintheAbolitionDistrictofthisStateparexcellence，intheLovejoyDistrict，inthepersonalpresenceofLovejoy，forhewasonthestandwithuswhenImadeit。IthadbeenmadeandputinprintinthatregiononlythreedayslessthanamonthbeforethespeechmadeatCharleston，thelikeofwhichJudgeDouglasthinksIwouldnotmakewheretherewasanyAbolitionelement。IonlyrefertothismattertosaythatIamaltogetherunconsciousofhavingattemptedanydouble—dealinganywhere；thatupononeoccasionImaysayonething，andleaveotherthingsunsaid，andviceversa，butthatIhavesaidanythingononeoccasionthatisinconsistentwithwhatIhavesaidelsewhere，Ideny，atleastIdenyitsofarastheintentionisconcerned。IfindthatIhavedevotedtothistopicalargerportionofmytimethanIhadintended。Iwishedtoshow，butIwillpassituponthisoccasion，thatinthesentimentIhaveoccasionallyadvancedupontheDeclarationofIndependenceIamentirelyborneoutbythesentimentsadvancedbyouroldWhigleader，HenryClay，andI

havethebookheretoshowitfrombutbecauseIhavealreadyoccupiedmoretimethanIintendedtodoonthattopic，Ipassoverit。

AtGalesburgh，ItriedtoshowthatbytheDredScottdecision，pushedtoitslegitimateconsequences，slaverywouldbeestablishedinalltheStatesaswellasintheTerritories。Ididthisbecause，uponaformeroccasion，IhadaskedJudgeDouglaswhether，iftheSupremeCourtshouldmakeadecisiondeclaringthattheStateshadnotthepowertoexcludeslaveryfromtheirlimits，hewouldadoptandfollowthatdecisionasaruleofpoliticalaction；andbecausehehadnotdirectlyansweredthatquestion，buthadmerelycontentedhimselfwithsneeringatit，Iagainintroducedit，andtriedtoshowthattheconclusionthatIstatedfollowedinevitablyandlogicallyfromthepropositionalreadydecidedbythecourt。JudgeDouglashadtheprivilegeofreplyingtomeatGalesburgh，andagainhegavemenodirectanswerastowhetherhewouldorwouldnotsustainsuchadecisionifmade。Igivehimhisthirdchancetosayyesorno。Heisnotobligedtodoeither，probablyhewillnotdoeither；butI

givehimthethirdchance。Itriedtoshowthenthatthisresult，thisconclusion，inevitablyfollowedfromthepointalreadydecidedbythecourt。TheJudge，inhisreply，againsneersatthethoughtofthecourtmakinganysuchdecision，andinthecourseofhisremarksuponthissubjectusesthelanguagewhichIwillnowread。

Speakingofme，theJudgesays：

"HegoesonandinsiststhattheDredScottdecisionwouldcarryslaveryintothefreeStates，notwithstandingthedecisionitselfsaysthecontrary。"Andheadds：

"Mr。LincolnknowsthatthereisnomemberoftheSupremeCourtthatholdsthatdoctrine。Heknowsthateveryoneofthemintheiropinionsheldthereverse。

IespeciallyintroducethissubjectagainforthepurposeofsayingthatIhavetheDredScottdecisionhere，andIwillthankJudgeDouglastolayhisfingerupontheplaceintheentireopinionsofthecourtwhereanyoneofthem"saysthecontrary。"Itisveryhardtoaffirmanegativewithentireconfidence。Isay，however，thatI

haveexaminedthatdecisionwithagooddealofcare，asalawyerexaminesadecisionand，sofarasIhavebeenabletodoso，thecourthasnowhereinitsopinionssaidthattheStateshavethepowertoexcludeslavery，norhavetheyusedotherlanguagesubstantiallythat，Ialsosay，sofarasIcanfind，notoneoftheconcurringjudgeshassaidthattheStatescanexcludeslavery，norsaidanythingthatwassubstantiallythat。Thenearestapproachthatanyoneofthemhasmadetoit，sofarasIcanfind，wasbyJudgeNelson，andtheapproachhemadetoitwasexactly，insubstance，theNebraskaBill，——thattheStateshadtheexclusivepoweroverthequestionofslavery，sofarastheyarenotlimitedbytheConstitutionoftheUnitedStates。Iaskedthequestion，therefore，ifthenon—concurringjudges，McLeanorCurtis，hadaskedtogetanexpressdeclarationthattheStatescouldabsolutelyexcludeslaveryfromtheirlimits，whatreasonhavewetobelievethatitwouldnothavebeenvoteddownbythemajorityofthejudges，justasChase’samendmentwasvoteddownbyJudgeDouglasandhiscompeerswhenitwasofferedtotheNebraskaBill。

Also，atGalesburgh，IsaidsomethinginregardtothoseSpringfieldresolutionsthatJudgeDouglashadattemptedtouseuponmeatOttawa，andcommentedatsomelengthuponthefactthattheywere，aspresented，notgenuine。JudgeDouglasinhisreplytomeseemedtobesomewhatexasperated。HesaidhewouldneverhavebelievedthatAbrahamLincoln，ashekindlycalledme，wouldhaveattemptedsuchathingasIhadattempteduponthatoccasion；andamongotherexpressionswhichheusedtowardme，wasthatIdaredtosayforgery，thatIhaddaredtosayforgery[turningtoJudgeDouglas]。Yes，Judge，Ididdaretosayforgery。ButinthispoliticalcanvasstheJudgeoughttorememberthatIwasnotthefirstwhodaredtosayforgery。AtJacksonville，JudgeDouglasmadeaspeechinanswertosomethingsaidbyJudgeTrumbull，andatthecloseofwhathesaiduponthatsubject，hedaredtosaythatTrumbullhadforgedhisevidence。Hesaid，too，thatheshouldnotconcernhimselfwithTrumbullanymore，butthereafterheshouldholdLincolnresponsiblefortheslandersuponhim。WhenImethimatCharlestonafterthat，althoughIthinkthatIshouldnothavenoticedthesubjectifhehadnotsaidhewouldholdmeresponsibleforit，IspreadoutbeforehimthestatementsoftheevidencethatJudgeTrumbullhadused，andI

askedJudgeDouglas，piecebypiece，toputhisfingerupononepieceofallthatevidencethathewouldsaywasaforgery！WhenIwentthroughwitheachandeverypiece，JudgeDouglasdidnotdarethentosaythatanypieceofitwasaforgery。SoitseemsthattherearesomethingsthatJudgeDouglasdarestodo，andsomethathedaresnottodo。

[Avoice：Itisthesamethingwithyou。]

Yes，sir，itisthesamethingwithme。Idodaretosayforgerywhenitistrue，anddon’tdaretosayforgerywhenitisfalse。NowIwillsayheretothisaudienceandtoJudgeDouglasIhavenotdaredtosayhecommittedaforgery，andInevershalluntilIknowit；butIdiddaretosay——justtosuggesttotheJudge——thataforgeryhadbeencommitted，whichbyhisownshowinghadbeentracedtohimandtwoofhisfriends。Idaredtosuggesttohimthathehadexpresslypromisedinoneofhispublicspeechestoinvestigatethatmatter，andIdaredtosuggesttohimthattherewasanimpliedpromisethatwhenheinvestigatedithewouldmakeknowntheresult。

IdaredtosuggesttotheJudgethathecouldnotexpecttobequiteclearofsuspicionofthatfraud，forsincethetimethatpromisewasmadehehadbeenwiththosefriends，andhadnotkepthispromiseinregardtotheinvestigationandthereportuponit。Iamnotaverydaringman，butIdaredthatmuch，Judge，andIamnotmuchscaredaboutityet。WhentheJudgesayshewouldn’thavebelievedofAbrahamLincolnthathewouldhavemadesuchanattemptasthatheremindsmeofthefactthatheentereduponthiscanvasswiththepurposetotreatmecourteously；thattouchedmesomewhat。Itsetsmetothinking。Iwasaware，whenitwasfirstagreedthatJudgeDouglasandIweretohavethesesevenjointdiscussions，thattheywerethesuccessiveactsofadrama，perhapsIshouldsay，tobeenacted，notmerelyinthefaceofaudienceslikethis，butinthefaceofthenation，andtosomeextent，bymyrelationtohim，andnotfromanythinginmyself，inthefaceoftheworld；andIamanxiousthattheyshouldbeconductedwithdignityandinthegoodtemperwhichwouldbebefittingthevastaudiencesbeforewhichitwasconducted。ButwhenJudgeDouglasgothomefromWashingtonandmadehisfirstspeechinChicago，theeveningafterwardImadesomesortofareplytoit。HissecondspeechwasmadeatBloomington，inwhichhecommenteduponmyspeechatChicagoandsaidthatIhadusedlanguageingeniouslycontrivedtoconcealmyintentions，orwordstothateffect。Now，Iunderstandthatthisisanimputationuponmyveracityandmycandor。IdonotknowwhattheJudgeunderstoodbyit，butinourfirstdiscussion，atOttawa，heledoffbychargingabargain，somewhatcorruptinitscharacter，uponTrumbullandmyself，——thatwehadenteredintoabargain，oneofthetermsofwhichwasthatTrumbullwastoAbolitionizetheoldDemocraticparty，andI(Lincoln)wastoAbolitionizetheoldWhigparty；Ipretendingtobeasgoodanold—lineWhigasever。JudgeDouglasmaynotunderstandthatheimplicatedmytruthfulnessandmyhonorwhenhesaidIwasdoingonethingandpretendinganother；andI

misunderstoodhimifhethoughthewastreatingmeinadignifiedway，asamanofhonorandtruth，ashenowclaimshewasdisposedtotreatme。Evenafterthattime，atGalesburgh，whenhebringsforwardanextractfromaspeechmadeatChicagoandanextractfromaspeechmadeatCharleston，toprovethatIwastryingtoplayadoublepart，thatIwastryingtocheatthepublic，andgetvotesupononesetofprinciplesatoneplace，anduponanothersetofprinciplesatanotherplace，——Idonotunderstandbutwhatheimpeachesmyhonor，myveracity，andmycandor；andbecausehedoesthis，IdonotunderstandthatIambound，ifIseeatruthfulgroundforit，tokeepmyhandsoffofhim。AssoonasIlearnedthatJudgeDouglaswasdisposedtotreatmeinthisway，IsignifiedinoneofmyspeechesthatIshouldbedriventodrawuponwhateverofhumbleresourcesImighthave，——toadoptanewcoursewithhim。IwasnotentirelysurethatIshouldbeabletoholdmyownwithhim，butIatleasthadthepurposemadetodoaswellasIcoulduponhim；andnowIsaythatIwillnotbethefirsttocry"Hold。"IthinkitoriginatedwiththeJudge，andwhenhequits，Iprobablywill。ButI

shallnotaskanyfavorsatall。Heasksme，orheaskstheaudience，ifIwishtopushthismattertothepointofpersonaldifficulty。Itellhim，no。Hedidnotmakeamistake，inoneofhisearlyspeeches，whenhecalledmean"amiable"man，thoughperhapshedidwhenhecalledmean"intelligent"man。ItreallyhurtsmeverymuchtosupposethatIhavewrongedanybodyonearth。

Iagaintellhim，no！Iverymuchprefer，whenthiscanvassshallbeover，howeveritmayresult，thatweatleastpartwithoutanybitterrecollectionsofpersonaldifficulties。

TheJudge，inhisconcludingspeechatGalesburgh，saysthatIwaspushingthismattertoapersonaldifficulty，toavoidtheresponsibilityfortheenormityofmyprinciples。IsaytotheJudgeandthisaudience，now，thatIwillagainstateourprinciples，aswellasIhastilycan，inalltheirenormity，andiftheJudgehereafterchoosestoconfinehimselftoawarupontheseprinciples，hewillprobablynotfindmedepartingfromthesamecourse。

Wehaveinthisnationthiselementofdomesticslavery。Itisamatterofabsolutecertaintythatitisadisturbingelement。Itistheopinionofallthegreatmenwhohaveexpressedanopinionuponit，thatitisadangerouselement。Wekeepupacontroversyinregardtoit。Thatcontroversynecessarilyspringsfromdifferenceofopinion；andifwecanlearnexactly——canreducetothelowestelements——whatthatdifferenceofopinionis，weperhapsshallbebetterpreparedfordiscussingthedifferentsystemsofpolicythatwewouldproposeinregardtothatdisturbingelement。Isuggestthatthedifferenceofopinion，reducedtoitslowestofterms，isnootherthanthedifferencebetweenthemenwhothinkslaveryawrongandthosewhodonotthinkitwrong。TheRepublicanpartythinkitwrong；wethinkitisamoral，asocial，andapoliticalwrong。WethinkitasawrongnotconfiningitselfmerelytothepersonsortheStateswhereitexists，butthatitisawronginitstendency，tosaytheleast，thatextendsitselftotheexistenceofthewholenation。Becausewethinkitwrong，weproposeacourseofpolicythatshalldealwithitasawrong。Wedealwithitaswithanyotherwrong，insofaraswecanpreventitsgrowinganylarger，andsodealwithitthatintherunoftimetheremaybesomepromiseofanendtoit。Wehaveadueregardtotheactualpresenceofitamongstus，andthedifficultiesofgettingridofitinanysatisfactoryway，andalltheconstitutionalobligationsthrownaboutit。Isupposethatinreferencebothtoitsactualexistenceinthenation，andtoourconstitutionalobligations，wehavenorightatalltodisturbitintheStateswhereitexists，andweprofessthatwehavenomoreinclinationtodisturbitthanwehavetherighttodoit。Wegofurtherthanthat：wedon’tproposetodisturbitwhere，inoneinstance，wethinktheConstitutionwouldpermitus。

WethinktheConstitutionwouldpermitustodisturbitintheDistrictofColumbia。Still，wedonotproposetodothat，unlessitshouldbeintermswhichIdon’tsupposethenationisverylikelysoontoagreeto，——thetermsofmakingtheemancipationgradual，andcompensatingtheunwillingowners。Wherewesupposewehavetheconstitutionalright，werestrainourselvesinreferencetotheactualexistenceoftheinstitutionandthedifficultiesthrownaboutit。Wealsoopposeitasanevilsofarasitseekstospreaditself。Weinsistonthepolicythatshallrestrictittoitspresentlimits。Wedon’tsupposethatindoingthisweviolateanythingduetotheactualpresenceoftheinstitution，oranythingduetotheconstitutionalguarantiesthrownaroundit。

WeopposetheDredScottdecisioninacertainway，uponwhichI

oughtperhapstoaddressyouafewwords。WedonotproposethatwhenDredScotthasbeendecidedtobeaslavebythecourt，we，asamob，willdecidehimtobefree。Wedonotproposethat，whenanyotherone，oronethousand，shallbedecidedbythatcourttobeslaves，wewillinanyviolentwaydisturbtherightsofpropertythussettled；butweneverthelessdoopposethatdecisionasapoliticalrulewhichshallbebindingonthevotertovotefornobodywhothinksitwrong，whichshallbebindingonthemembersofCongressorthePresidenttofavornomeasurethatdoesnotactuallyconcurwiththeprinciplesofthatdecision。Wedonotproposetobeboundbyitasapoliticalruleinthatway，becausewethinkitlaysthefoundation，notmerelyofenlargingandspreadingoutwhatweconsideranevil，butitlaysthefoundationforspreadingthatevilintotheStatesthemselves。Weproposesoresistingitastohaveitreversedifwecan，andanewjudicialruleestablisheduponthissubject。

Iwilladdthis：thatiftherebeanymanwhodoesnotbelievethatslaveryiswronginthethreeaspectswhichIhavementioned，orinanyoneofthem，thatmanismisplaced，andoughttoleaveus；whileontheotherhand，iftherebeanymanintheRepublicanpartywhoisimpatientoverthenecessityspringingfromitsactualpresence，andisimpatientoftheconstitutionalguarantiesthrownaroundit，andwouldactindisregardofthese，hetooismisplaced，standingwithus。Hewillfindhisplacesomewhereelse；forwehaveadueregard，sofaraswearecapableofunderstandingthem，forallthesethings。

This，gentlemen，aswellasIcangiveit，isaplainstatementofourprinciplesinalltheirenormity。

Iwillsaynowthatthereisasentimentinthecountrycontrarytome，——asentimentwhichholdsthatslaveryisnotwrong，andthereforeitgoesforthepolicythatdoesnotproposedealingwithitasawrong。ThatpolicyistheDemocraticpolicy，andthatsentimentistheDemocraticsentiment。IftherebeadoubtinthemindofanyoneofthisvastaudiencethatthisisreallythecentralideaoftheDemocraticpartyinrelationtothissubject，IaskhimtobearwithmewhileIstateafewthingstending，asIthink，toprovethatproposition。Inthefirstplace，theleadingman——IthinkImaydomyfriendJudgeDouglasthehonorofcallinghimsuchadvocatingthepresentDemocraticpolicyneverhimselfsaysitiswrong。Hehasthehighdistinction，sofarasIknow，ofneverhavingsaidslaveryiseitherrightorwrong。Almosteverybodyelsesaysoneortheother，buttheJudgeneverdoes。IftherebeamanintheDemocraticpartywhothinksitiswrong，andyetclingstothatparty，Isuggesttohim，inthefirstplace，thathisleaderdon’ttalkashedoes，forheneversaysthatitiswrong。Inthesecondplace，Isuggesttohimthatifhewillexaminethepolicyproposedtobecarriedforward，hewillfindthathecarefullyexcludestheideathatthereisanythingwronginit。Ifyouwillexaminetheargumentsthataremadeonit，youwillfindthateveryonecarefullyexcludestheideathatthereisanythingwronginslavery。PerhapsthatDemocratwhosaysheisasmuchopposedtoslaveryasIamwilltellmethatIamwrongaboutthis。Iwishhimtoexaminehisowncourseinregardtothismatteramoment，andthenseeifhisopinionwillnotbechangedalittle。Yousayitiswrong；butdon’tyouconstantlyobjecttoanybodyelsesayingso？Doyounotconstantlyarguethatthisisnottherightplacetoopposeit？YousayitmustnotbeopposedinthefreeStates，becauseslaveryisnothere；itmustnotbeopposedintheslaveStates，becauseitisthere；itmustnotbeopposedinpolitics，becausethatwillmakeafuss；itmustnotbeopposedinthepulpit，becauseitisnotreligion。Thenwhereistheplacetoopposeit？Thereisnosuitableplacetoopposeit。Thereisnoplaceinthecountrytoopposethiseviloverspreadingthecontinent，whichyousayyourselfiscoming。FrankBlairandGratzBrowntriedtogetupasystemofgradualemancipationinMissouri，hadanelectioninAugust，andgotbeat，andyou，Mr。Democrat，threwupyourhat，andhallooed"HurrahforDemocracy！"SoIsay，again，thatinregardtotheargumentsthataremade，whenJudgeDouglasSayshe"don’tcarewhetherslaveryisvoteduporvoteddown，"whetherhemeansthatasanindividualexpressionofsentiment，oronlyasasortofstatementofhisviewsonnationalpolicy，itisaliketruetosaythathecanthusarguelogicallyifhedon’tseeanythingwronginit；buthecannotsaysologicallyifheadmitsthatslaveryiswrong。Hecannotsaythathewouldassoonseeawrongvotedupasvoteddown。WhenJudgeDouglassaysthatwhoeverorwhatevercommunitywantsslaves，theyhavearighttohavethem，heisperfectlylogical，ifthereisnothingwrongintheinstitution；butifyouadmitthatitiswrong，hecannotlogicallysaythatanybodyhasarighttodowrong。WhenhesaysthatslavepropertyandhorseandhogpropertyarealiketobeallowedtogointotheTerritories，upontheprinciplesofequality，heisreasoningtruly，ifthereisnodifferencebetweenthemasproperty；butiftheoneispropertyheldrightfully，andtheotheriswrong，thenthereisnoequalitybetweentherightandwrong；sothat，turnitinanywayyoucan，inalltheargumentssustainingtheDemocraticpolicy，andinthatpolicyitself，thereisacareful，studiedexclusionoftheideathatthereisanythingwronginslavery。Letusunderstandthis。Iamnot，justhere，tryingtoprovethatweareright，andtheyarewrong。Ihavebeenstatingwhereweandtheystand，andtryingtoshowwhatistherealdifferencebetweenus；andInowsaythatwheneverwecangetthequestiondistinctlystated，cangetallthesemenwhobelievethatslaveryisinsomeoftheserespectswrongtostandandactwithusintreatingitasawrong，——then，andnottillthen，Ithinkwewillinsomewaycometoanendofthisslaveryagitation。

Mr。LINCOLN’SREJOINDER。

MYFRIENDS：——SinceJudgeDouglashassaidtoyouinhisconclusionthathehadnottimeinanhourandahalftoanswerallIhadsaidinanhour，itfollowsofcoursethatIwillnotbeabletoanswerinhalfanhourallthathesaidinanhourandahalf。

IwishtoreturntoJudgeDouglasmyprofoundthanksforhispublicannunciationhereto—day，tobeputonrecord，thathissystemofpolicyinregardtotheinstitutionofslaverycontemplatesthatitshalllastforever。Wearegettingalittlenearerthetrueissueofthiscontroversy，andIamprofoundlygratefulforthisonesentence。

JudgeDouglasasksyou，Whycannottheinstitutionofslavery，orrather，whycannotthenation，partslaveandpartfree，continueasourfathersmadeit，forever？Inthefirstplace，Iinsistthatourfathersdidnotmakethisnationhalfslaveandhalffree，orpartslaveandpartfree。Iinsistthattheyfoundtheinstitutionofslaveryexistinghere。Theydidnotmakeitsobuttheyleftitsobecausetheyknewofnowaytogetridofitatthattime。WhenJudgeDouglasundertakestosaythat，asamatterofchoice，thefathersofthegovernmentmadethisnationpartslaveandpartfree，heassumeswhatishistoricallyafalsehood。Morethanthat：whenthefathersofthegovernmentcutoffthesourceofslaverybytheabolitionoftheslave—trade，andadoptedasystemofrestrictingitfromthenewTerritorieswhereithadnotexisted，Imaintainthattheyplaceditwheretheyunderstood，andallsensiblemenunderstood，itwasinthecourseofultimateextinction；andwhenJudgeDouglasasksmewhyitcannotcontinueasourfathersmadeit，Iaskhimwhyheandhisfriendscouldnotletitremainasourfathersmadeit？

ItispreciselyallIaskofhiminrelationtotheinstitutionofslavery，thatitshallbeplaceduponthebasisthatourfathersplaceditupon。Mr。Brooks，ofSouthCarolina，oncesaid，andtrulysaid，thatwhenthisgovernmentwasestablished，nooneexpectedtheinstitutionofslaverytolastuntilthisday，andthatthemenwhoformedthisgovernmentwerewiserandbetterthanthemenofthesedays；butthemenofthesedayshadexperiencewhichthefathershadnot，andthatexperiencehadtaughtthemtheinventionofthecotton—gin，andthishadmadetheperpetuationoftheinstitutionofslaveryanecessityinthiscountry。JudgeDouglascouldnotletitstanduponthebasiswhichourfathersplacedit，butremovedit，andputituponthecotton—ginbasis。Itisaquestion，therefore，forhimandhisfriendstoanswer，whytheycouldnotletitremainwherethefathersofthegovernmentoriginallyplacedit。IhopenobodyhasunderstoodmeastryingtosustainthedoctrinethatwehavearighttoquarrelwithKentucky，orVirginia，oranyoftheslaveStates，abouttheinstitutionofslavery，——thusgivingtheJudgeanopportunitytobeeloquentandvaliantagainstusinfightingfortheirrights。IexpresslydeclaredinmyopeningspeechthatIhadneithertheinclinationtoexercise，northebeliefintheexistenceof，therighttointerferewiththeStatesofKentuckyorVirginiaindoingastheypleasedwithslaveryOranyotherexistinginstitution。

ThenwhatbecomesofallhiseloquenceinbehalfoftherightsofStates，whichareassailedbynolivingman？

ButIhavetohurryon，forIhavebutahalfhour。TheJudgehasinformedme，orinformedthisaudience，thattheWashingtonUnionislaboringformyelectiontotheUnitedStatesSenate。Thisisnewstome，——notveryungratefulnewseither。[TurningtoMr。W。H。

Carlin，whowasonthestand]——IhopethatCarlinwillbeelectedtotheStateSenate，andwillvoteforme。[Mr。Carlinshookhishead。]

Carlindon’tfallin，Iperceive，andIsupposehewillnotdomuchforme；butIamgladofallthesupportIcanget，anywhere，ifI

cangetitwithoutpracticinganydeceptiontoobtainit。InrespecttothislargeportionofJudgeDouglas’sspeechinwhichhetriestoshowthatinthecontroversybetweenhimselfandtheAdministrationpartyheisintheright，Idonotfeelmyselfatallcompetentorinclinedtoanswerhim。Isaytohim，"Giveittothem，——giveittothemjustallyoucan！"and，ontheotherhand，IsaytoCarlin，andJakeDavis，andtothismanWogleyuphereinHancock，"GiveittoDouglas，justpouritintohim！

Now，inregardtothismatteroftheDredScottdecision，Iwishtosayawordortwo。Afterall，theJudgewillnotsaywhether，ifadecisionismadeholdingthatthepeopleoftheStatescannotexcludeslavery，hewillsupportitornot。Heobstinatelyrefusestosaywhathewilldointhatcase。ThejudgesoftheSupremeCourtasobstinatelyrefusedtosaywhattheywoulddoonthissubject。

BeforethisIremindedhimthatatGalesburghhesaidthejudgeshadexpresslydeclaredthecontrary，andyourememberthatinmyOpeningspeechItoldhimIhadthebookcontainingthatdecisionhere，andI

wouldthankhimtolayhisfingerontheplacewhereanysuchthingwassaid。Hehasoccupiedhishourandahalf，andhehasnotventuredtotrytosustainhisassertion。Heneverwill。ButheisdesirousofknowinghowwearegoingtoreversethatDredScottdecision。JudgeDouglasoughttoknowhow。DidnotheandhispoliticalfriendsfindawaytoreversethedecisionofthatsamecourtinfavoroftheconstitutionalityoftheNationalBank？Didn’ttheyfindawaytodoitsoeffectuallythattheyhavereverseditascompletelyasanydecisioneverwasreversed，sofarasitspracticaloperationisconcerned？

Andletmeaskyou，didn’tJudgeDouglasfindawaytoreversethedecisionofourSupremeCourtwhenitdecidedthatCarlin’sfather——

oldGovernorCarlinhadnottheconstitutionalpowertoremoveaSecretaryofState？Didhenotappealtothe"MOBS，"ashecallsthem？Didhenotmakespeechesinthelobbytoshowhowvillainousthatdecisionwas，andhowitoughttobeoverthrown？Didhenotsucceed，too，ingettinganactpassedbytheLegislaturetohaveitoverthrown？Anddidn’thehimselfsitdownonthatbenchasoneofthefiveaddedjudges，whoweretooverslaughthefouroldones，gettinghisnameof"judge"inthatway，andnoother？IfthereisavillainyinusingdisrespectormakingoppositiontoSupremeCourtdecisions，IcommendittoJudgeDouglas’searnestconsideration。I

knowofnomanintheStateofIllinoiswhooughttoknowsowellabouthowmuchvillainyittakestoopposeadecisionoftheSupremeCourtasourhonorablefriendStephenA。Douglas。

JudgeDouglasalsomakesthedeclarationthatIsaytheDemocratsareboundbytheDredScottdecision，whiletheRepublicansarenot。Inthesenseinwhichheargues，Ineversaidit；butIwilltellyouwhatIhavesaidandwhatIdonothesitatetorepeatto—day。IhavesaidthatastheDemocratsbelievethatdecisiontobecorrect，andthattheextensionofslaveryisaffirmedintheNationalConstitution，theyareboundtosupportitassuch；andIwilltellyouherethatGeneralJacksononcesaideachmanwasboundtosupporttheConstitution"asheunderstoodit。"Now，JudgeDouglasunderstandstheConstitutionaccordingtotheDredScottdecision，andheisboundtosupportitasheunderstandsit。Iunderstanditanotherway，andthereforeIamboundtosupportitinthewayinwhichIunderstandit。AndasJudgeDouglasbelievesthatdecisiontobecorrect，IwillremakethatargumentifIhavetimetodoso。

Letmetalktosomegentlemandownthereamongyouwholooksmeintheface。WewillsayyouareamemberoftheTerritorialLegislature，and，likeJudgeDouglas，youbelievethattherighttotakeandholdslavesthereisaconstitutionalrightThefirstthingyoudoistoswearyouwillsupporttheConstitution1，andallrightsguaranteedtherein；thatyouwill，wheneveryourneighborneedsyourlegislationtosupporthisconstitutionalrights，notwithholdthatlegislation。IfyouwithholdthatnecessarylegislationforthesupportoftheConstitutionandconstitutionalrights，doyounotcommitperjury？Iaskeverysensiblemanifthatisnotso？Thatisundoubtedlyjustso，saywhatyouplease。Now，thatispreciselywhatJudgeDouglassays，thatthisisaconstitutionalright。DoestheJudgemeantosaythattheTerritorialLegislatureinlegislatingmay，bywithholdingnecessarylaws，orbypassingunfriendlylaws，nullifythatconstitutionalright？Doeshemeantosaythat？Doeshemeantoignorethepropositionsolongandwellestablishedinlaw，thatwhatyoucannotdodirectly，youcannotdoindirectly？

Doeshemeanthat？Thetruthaboutthematteristhis：JudgeDouglashassungpaeanstohis"PopularSovereignty"doctrineuntilhisSupremeCourt，co—operatingwithhim，hassquattedhisSquatterSovereigntyout。ButhewillkeepupthisspeciesofhumbuggeryaboutSquatterSovereignty。Hehasatlastinventedthissortofdo—nothingsovereignty，——thatthepeoplemayexcludeslaverybyasortof"sovereignty"thatisexercisedbydoingnothingatall。IsnotthatrunninghisPopularSovereigntydownawfully？Hasitnotgotdownasthinasthehomeopathicsoupthatwasmadebyboilingtheshadowofapigeonthathadstarvedtodeath？Butatlast，whenitisbroughttothetestofclosereasoning，thereisnoteventhatthindecoctionofitleft。Itisapresumptionimpossibleinthedomainofthought。Itispreciselynootherthantheputtingofthatmostunphilosophicalproposition，thattwobodiescanoccupythesamespaceatthesametime。TheDredScottdecisioncoversthewholeground，andwhileitoccupiesit，thereisnoroomevenfortheshadowofastarvedpigeontooccupythesameground。

JudgeDouglas，inreplytowhatIhavesaidabouthavinguponapreviousoccasionmadethespeechatOttawaastheonehetookanextractfromatCharleston，saysitonlyshowsthatIpracticedthedeceptiontwice。Now，myfriends，areanyofyouobtuseenoughtoswallowthat？JudgeDouglashadsaidIhadmadeaspeechatCharlestonthatIwouldnotmakeupnorth，andIturnedaroundandansweredhimbyshowingIhadmadethatsamespeechupnorth，——hadmadeitatOttawa；madeitinhishearing；madeitintheAbolitionDistrict，——inLovejoy’sDistrict，——inthepersonalpresenceofLovejoyhimself，——inthesameatmosphereexactlyinwhichIhadmademyChicagospeech，ofwhichhecomplainssomuch。

Now，inrelationtomynothavingsaidanythingaboutthequotationfromtheChicagospeech：hethinksthatisaterriblesubjectformetohandle。Why，gentlemen，IcanshowyouthatthesubstanceoftheChicagospeechIdeliveredtwoyearsagoin"Egypt，"ashecallsit。

ItwasdownatSpringfield。Thatspeechishereinthisbook，andI

couldturntoitandreadittoyoubutforthelackoftime。Ihavenotnowthetimetoreadit。["Readit，readit。"]No，gentlemen，I

amobligedtousediscretionindisposingmostadvantageouslyofmybrieftime。TheJudgehastakengreatexceptiontomyadoptingthehereticalstatementintheDeclarationofIndependence，that"allmenarecreatedequal，"andhehasagreatdealtosayaboutnegroequality。IwanttosaythatinsometimesalludingtotheDeclarationofIndependence，IhaveonlyutteredthesentimentsthatHenryClayusedtohold。Allowmetooccupyyourtimeamomentwithwhathesaid。Mr。ClaywasatonetimecalleduponinIndiana，andinawaythatIsupposewasveryinsulting，toliberatehisslaves；

andhemadeawrittenreplytothatapplication，andoneportionofitisinthesewords：

"WhatisthefoundationofthisappealtomeinIndianatoliberatetheslavesundermycareinKentucky？ItisageneraldeclarationintheactannouncingtotheworldtheindependenceofthethirteenAmericancolonies，thatmenarecreatedequal。Now，asanabstractprinciple，thereisnodoubtofthetruthofthatdeclaration，anditisdesirableintheoriginalconstructionofsociety，andinorganizedsocieties，tokeepitinviewasagreatfundamentalprinciple。"

WhenIsometimes，inrelationtotheorganizationofnewsocietiesinnewcountries，wherethesoiliscleanandclear，insistedthatweshouldkeepthatprincipleinview，JudgeDouglaswillhaveitthatI

wantanegrowife。Henevercanbebroughttounderstandthatthereisanymiddlegroundonthissubject。Ihaveliveduntilmyfiftiethyear，andhaveneverhadanegrowomaneitherforaslaveorawife，andIthinkIcanlivefiftycenturies，forthatmatter，withouthavinghadoneforeither。ImaintainthatyoumaytakeJudgeDouglas’squotationsfrommyChicagospeech，andfrommyCharlestonspeech，andtheGalesburghspeech，——inhisspeechofto—day，——andcomparethemover，andIamwillingtotrustthemwithyouuponhispropositionthattheyshowrascalityordouble—dealing。Idenythattheydo。

TheJudgedoesnotseematalldisposedtohavepeace，butIfindheisdisposedtohaveapersonalwarfarewithme。HesaysthatmyoathwouldnotbetakenagainstthebarewordofCharlesH。LanphierorThomasL。Harris。Well，thatisaltogetheramatterofopinion。Itiscertainlynotformetovauntmywordagainstoathsofthesegentlemen，butIwilltellJudgeDouglasagainthefactsuponwhichI

"dared"tosaytheyprovedaforgery。IpointedoutatGalesburghthatthepublicationoftheseresolutionsintheIllinoisStateRegistercouldnothavebeentheresultofaccident，astheproceedingsofthatmeetingboreunmistakableevidenceofbeingdonebyamanwhoknewitwasaforgery；thatitwasapublicationpartlytakenfromtherealproceedingsoftheConvention，andpartlyfromtheproceedingsofaconventionatanotherplace，whichshowedthathehadtherealproceedingsbeforehim，andtakingonepartoftheresolutions，hethrewoutanotherpart，andsubstitutedfalseandfraudulentonesintheirstead。Ipointedthatouttohim，andalsothathisfriendLanphier，whowaseditoroftheRegisteratthattimeandnowis，musthaveknownhowitwasdone。Now，whetherhedidit，orgotsomefriendtodoitforhim，Icouldnottell，buthecertainlyknewallaboutit。IpointedouttoJudgeDouglasthatinhisFreeportspeechhehadpromisedtoinvestigatethatmatter。

Doeshenowsaythathedidnotmakethatpromise？Ihavearighttoaskwhyhedidnotkeepit。Icalluponhimtotellhereto—daywhyhedidnotkeepthatpromise？Thatfraudhasbeentracedupsothatitliesbetweenhim，Harris，andLanphier。ThereislittleroomforescapeforLanphier。LanphierisdoingtheJudgegoodservice，andDouglasdesireshiswordtobetakenforthetruth。HedesiresLanphiertobetakenasauthorityinwhathestatesinhisnewspaper。

HedesiresHarristobetakenasamanofvastcredibility；andwhenthisthingliesamongthem，theywillnotpressittoshowwheretheguiltreallybelongs。Now，ashehassaidthathewouldinvestigateit，andimpliedthathewouldtellustheresultofhisinvestigation，Idemandofhimtotellwhyhedidnotinvestigateit，ifhedidnot；andifhedid，whyhewon’ttelltheresult。Icalluponhimforthat。

ThisisthethirdtimethatJudgeDouglashasassumedthathelearnedabouttheseresolutionsbyHarris’sattemptingtousethemagainstNortononthefloorofCongress。ItellJudgeDouglasthepublicrecordsofthecountryshowthathehimselfattemptedituponTrumbullamonthbeforeHarristriedthemonNorton；thatHarrishadtheopportunityoflearningitfromhim，ratherthanhefromHarris。

Inowaskhisattentiontothatpartoftherecordonthecase。Myfriends，Iamnotdisposedtodetainyoulongerinregardtothatmatter。

IamtoldthatIstillhavefiveminutesleft。ThereisanothermatterIwishtocallattentionto。Hesays，whenhediscoveredtherewasamistakeinthatcase，hecameforwardmagnanimously，withoutmycallinghisattentiontoit，andexplainedit。Iwilltellyouhowhebecamesomagnanimous。Whenthenewspapersofoursidehaddiscoveredandpublishedit，andputitbeyondhispowertodenyit，thenhecameforwardandmadeavirtueofnecessitybyacknowledgingit。Nowhearguesthatallthepointtherewasinthoseresolutions，althoughneverpassedatSpringfield，isretainedbytheirbeingpassedatotherlocalities。Isthattrue？HesaidI

hadahandinpassingthem，inhisopeningspeech，thatIwasintheconventionandhelpedtopassthem。Dotheresolutionstouchmeatall？Itstrikesmethereissomedifferencebetweenholdingamanresponsibleforanactwhichhehasnotdoneandholdinghimresponsibleforanactthathehasdone。Youwilljudgewhetherthereisanydifferenceinthe"spots。"

AndhehastakencreditforgreatmagnanimityincomingforwardandacknowledgingwhatisprovedonhimbeyondeventhecapacityofJudgeDouglastodeny；andhehasmorecapacityinthatwaythananyotherlivingman。

ThenhewantstoknowwhyIwon’twithdrawthechargeinregardtoaconspiracytomakeslaverynational，ashehaswithdrawntheonehemade。Mayitpleasehisworship，Iwillwithdrawitwhenitisprovenfalseonmeasthatwasprovenfalseonhim。Iwilladdalittlemorethanthat，Iwillwithdrawitwheneverareasonablemanshallbebroughttobelievethatthechargeisnottrue。IhaveaskedJudgeDouglas’sattentiontocertainmattersoffacttendingtoprovethechargeofaconspiracytonationalizeslavery，andhesaysheconvincesmethatthisisalluntruebecauseBuchananwasnotinthecountryatthattime，andbecausetheDredScottcasehadnotthengotintotheSupremeCourt；andhesaysthatIsaytheDemocraticownersofDredScottgotupthecase。IneverdidsaythatIdefyJudgeDouglastoshowthatIeversaidso，forIneverutteredit。[OneofMr。Douglas’sreportersgesticulatedaffirmativelyatMr。Lincoln。]Idon’tcareifyourhirelingdoessayIdid，ItellyoumyselfthatIneversaidthe"Democratic"ownersofDredScottgotupthecase。IhaveneverpretendedtoknowwhetherDredScott’sownerswereDemocrats，orAbolitionists，orFreesoilersorBorderRuffians。Ihavesaidthatthereisevidenceaboutthecasetendingtoshowthatitwasamade—upcase，forthepurposeofgettingthatdecision。IhavesaidthatthatevidencewasverystronginthefactthatwhenDredScottwasdeclaredtobeaslave，theownerofhimmadehimfree，showingthathehadhadthecasetriedandthequestionsettledforsuchuseascouldbemadeofthatdecision；hecarednothingaboutthepropertythusdeclaredtobehisbythatdecision。Butmytimeisout，andIcansaynomore。

LASTJOINTDEBATE，ATALTON，OCTOBER15，1858

Mr。LINCOLN’SREPLY

LADIESANDGENTLEMEN：——Ihavebeensomewhat，inmyownmind，complimentedbyalargeportionofJudgeDouglas’sspeech，——ImeanthatportionwhichhedevotestothecontroversybetweenhimselfandthepresentAdministration。ThisistheseventhtimeJudgeDouglasandmyselfhavemetinthesejointdiscussions，andhehasbeengraduallyimprovinginregardtohiswarwiththeAdministration。AtQuincy，daybeforeyesterday，hewasalittlemoresevereupontheAdministrationthanIhadheardhimuponanyoccasion，andItookpainstocomplimenthimforit。Ithentoldhimtogiveittothemwithallthepowerhehad；andassomeofthemwerepresent，ItoldthemIwouldbeverymuchobligediftheywouldgiveittohiminaboutthesameway。ItakeithehasnowvastlyimprovedupontheattackhemadethenupontheAdministration。Iflattermyselfhehasreallytakenmyadviceonthissubject。AllIcansaynowistore—commendtohimandtothemwhatIthencommended，——toprosecutethewaragainstoneanotherinthemostvigorousmanner。Isaytothemagain："Goit，husband！——Goit，bear！"

ThereisoneotherthingIwillmentionbeforeIleavethisbranchofthediscussion，——althoughIdonotconsideritmuchofmybusiness，anyway。IrefertothatpartoftheJudge’sremarkswhereheundertakestoinvolveMr。Buchananinaninconsistency。HereadssomethingfromMr。Buchanan，fromwhichheundertakestoinvolvehiminaninconsistency；andhegetssomethingofacheerforhavingdoneso。IwouldonlyremindtheJudgethatwhileheisveryvaliantlyfightingfortheNebraskaBillandtherepealoftheMissouriCompromise，ithasbeenbutalittlewhilesincehewasthevaliantadvocateoftheMissouriCompromise。IwanttoknowifBuchananhasnotasmuchrighttobeinconsistentasDouglashas？HasDouglastheexclusiveright，inthiscountry，ofbeingonallsidesofallquestions？Isnobodyallowedthathighprivilegebuthimself？Ishetohaveanentiremonopolyonthatsubject？

SofarasJudgeDouglasaddressedhisspeechtome，orsofarasitwasaboutme，itismybusinesstopaysomeattentiontoit。IhaveheardtheJudgestatetwoorthreetimeswhathehasstatedto—day，thatinaspeechwhichImadeatSpringfield，Illinois，IhadinaveryespecialmannercomplainedthattheSupremeCourtintheDredScottcasehaddecidedthatanegrocouldneverbeacitizenoftheUnitedStates。Ihaveomittedbysomeaccidentheretoforetoanalyzethisstatement，anditisrequiredofmetonoticeitnow。Inpointoffactitisuntrue。IneverhavecomplainedespeciallyoftheDredScottdecisionbecauseitheldthatanegrocouldnotbeacitizen，andtheJudgeisalwayswrongwhenhesaysIeverdidsocomplainofit。Ihavethespeechhere，andIwillthankhimoranyofhisfriendstoshowwhereIsaidthatanegroshouldbeacitizen，andcomplainedespeciallyoftheDredScottdecisionbecauseitdeclaredhecouldnotbeone。Ihavedonenosuchthing；andJudgeDouglas，sopersistentlyinsistingthatIhavedoneso，hasstronglyimpressedmewiththebeliefofapredeterminationonhisparttomisrepresentme。HecouldnotgethisfoundationforinsistingthatIwasinfavorofthisnegroequalityanywhereelseaswellashecouldbyassumingthatuntrueproposition。Letmetellthisaudiencewhatistrueinregardtothatmatter；andthemeansbywhichtheymaycorrectmeifIdonottellthemtrulyisbyarecurrencetothespeechitself。IspokeoftheDredScottdecisioninmySpringfieldspeech，andIwasthenendeavoringtoprovethattheDredScottdecisionwasaportionofasystemorschemetomakeslaverynationalinthiscountry。Ipointedoutwhatthingshadbeendecidedbythecourt。Imentionedasafactthattheyhaddecidedthatanegrocouldnotbeacitizen；thattheyhaddoneso，asIsupposed，todeprivethenegro，underallcircumstances，oftheremotestpossibilityofeverbecomingacitizenandclaimingtherightsofacitizenoftheUnitedStatesunderacertainclauseoftheConstitution。Istatedthat，withoutmakinganycomplaintofitatall。Ithenwentonandstatedtheotherpointsdecidedinthecase；

namely，thatthebringingofanegrointotheStateofIllinoisandholdinghiminslaveryfortwoyearsherewasamatterinregardtowhichtheywouldnotdecidewhetheritwouldmakehimfreeornot；

thattheydecidedthefurtherpointthattakinghimintoaUnitedStatesTerritorywhereslaverywasprohibitedbyActofCongressdidnotmakehimfree，becausethatActofCongress，astheyheld，wasunconstitutional。Imentionedthesethreethingsasmakingupthepointsdecidedinthatcase。Imentionedtheminalump，takeninconnectionwiththeintroductionoftheNebraskaBill，andtheamendmentofChase，offeredatthetime，declaratoryoftherightofthepeopleoftheTerritoriestoexcludeslavery，whichwasvoteddownbythefriendsofthebill。Imentionedallthesethingstogether，asevidencetendingtoproveacombinationandconspiracytomaketheinstitutionofslaverynational。InthatconnectionandinthatwayImentionedthedecisiononthepointthatanegrocouldnotbeacitizen，andinnootherconnection。

OutofthisJudgeDouglasbuildsuphisbeautifulfabricationofmypurposetointroduceaperfectsocialandpoliticalequalitybetweenthewhiteandblackraces。HisassertionthatImadean"especialobjection"(thatishisexactlanguage)tothedecisiononthisaccountisuntrueinpointoffact。

Now，whileIamuponthissubject，andasHenryClayhasbeenalludedto，Idesiretoplacemyself，inconnectionwithMr。Clay，asnearlyrightbeforethispeopleasmaybe。IamquiteawarewhattheJudge’sobjectisherebyalltheseallusions。Heknowsthatwearebeforeanaudiencehavingstrongsympathiessouthward，byrelationship，placeofbirth，andsoon。HedesirestoplacemeinanextremelyAbolitionattitude。Hereaduponaformeroccasion，andalludes，withoutreading，to—daytoaportionofaspeechwhichI

deliveredinChicago。Inhisquotationsfromthatspeech，ashehasmadethemuponformeroccasions，theextractsweretakeninsuchawayas，Isuppose，bringsthemwithinthedefinitionofwhatiscalledgarbling，——takingportionsofaspeechwhich，whentakenbythemselves，donotpresenttheentiresenseofthespeakerasexpressedatthetime。Ipropose，therefore，outofthatsamespeech，toshowhowoneportionofitwhichheskippedover(takinganextractbeforeandanextractafter)willgiveadifferentidea，andthetrueideaIintendedtoconvey。Itwilltakemesomelittletimetoreadit，butIbelieveIwilloccupythetimethatway。

YouhaveheardhimfrequentlyalludetomycontroversywithhiminregardtotheDeclarationofIndependence。IconfessthatIhavehadastrugglewithJudgeDouglasonthatmatter，andIwilltrybrieflytoplacemyselfrightinregardtoitonthisoccasion。Isaid——anditisbetweentheextractsJudgeDouglashastakenfromthisspeech，andputinhispublishedspeeches：

"Itmaybearguedthattherearecertainconditionsthatmakenecessitiesandimposethemuponus，andtotheextentthatanecessityisimposeduponamanhemustsubmittoit。Ithinkthatwastheconditioninwhichwefoundourselveswhenweestablishedthisgovernment。Wehadslavesamongus，wecouldnotgetourConstitutionunlesswepermittedthemtoremaininslavery，wecouldnotsecurethegoodwedidsecureifwegraspedformore；andhavingbynecessitysubmittedtothatmuch，itdoesnotdestroytheprinciplethatisthecharterofourliberties。Letthecharterremainasourstandard。"

Now，IhaveuponalloccasionsdeclaredasstronglyasJudgeDouglasagainstthedispositiontointerferewiththeexistinginstitutionofslavery。Youhearmereaditfromthesamespeechfromwhichhetakesgarbledextractsforthepurposeofprovinguponmeadispositiontointerferewiththeinstitutionofslavery，andestablishaperfectsocialandpoliticalequalitybetweennegroesandwhitepeople。

Allowmewhileuponthissubjectbrieflytopresentoneotherextractfromaspeechofmine，morethanayearago，atSpringfield，indiscussingthisverysamequestion，soonafterJudgeDouglastookhisgroundthatnegroeswere，notincludedintheDeclarationofIndependence：

"Ithinktheauthorsofthatnotableinstrumentintendedtoincludeallmen，buttheydidnotmeantodeclareallmenequalinallrespects。Theydidnotmeantosayallmenwereequalincolor，size，intellect，moraldevelopment，orsocialcapacity。Theydefinedwithtolerabledistinctnessinwhattheydidconsiderallmencreatedequal，——equalincertaininalienablerights，amongwhicharelife，liberty，andthepursuitofhappiness。Thistheysaid，andthistheymeant。Theydidnotmeantoasserttheobviousuntruththatallwerethenactuallyenjoyingthatequality，oryetthattheywereabouttoconferitimmediatelyuponthem。Infacttheyhadnopowertoconfersuchaboon。Theymeantsimplytodeclaretheright，sothattheenforcementofitmightfollowasfastascircumstancesshouldpermit。

"Theymeanttosetupastandardmaximforfreesocietywhichshouldbefamiliartoall，——constantlylookedto，constantlylaboredfor，andeven，thoughneverperfectlyattained，constantlyapproximated，andtherebyconstantlyspreadinganddeepeningitsinfluence，andaugmentingthehappinessandvalueoflifetoallpeople，ofallcolors，everywhere。"

ThereagainarethesentimentsIhaveexpressedinregardtotheDeclarationofIndependenceuponaformeroccasion，——sentimentswhichhavebeenputinprintandreadwhereveranybodycaredtoknowwhatsohumbleanindividualasmyselfchosetosayinregardtoit。

AtGalesburgh，theotherday，Isaid，inanswertoJudgeDouglas，thatthreeyearsagothereneverhadbeenaman，sofarasIkneworbelieved，inthewholeworld，whohadsaidthattheDeclarationofIndependencedidnotincludenegroesintheterm"allmen。"I

reassertitto—day。IassertthatJudgeDouglasandallhisfriendsmaysearchthewholerecordsofthecountry，anditwillbeamatterofgreatastonishmenttomeiftheyshallbeabletofindthatonehumanbeingthreeyearsagohadeverutteredtheastoundingsentimentthattheterm"allmen"intheDeclarationdidnotincludethenegro。

Donotletmebemisunderstood。Iknowthatmorethanthreeyearsagothereweremenwho，findingthisassertionconstantlyinthewayoftheirschemestobringabouttheascendencyandperpetuationofslavery，deniedthetruthofit。IknowthatMr。CalhounandallthepoliticiansofhisschooldeniedthetruthoftheDeclaration。I

knowthatitranalonginthemouthofsomeSouthernmenforaperiodofyears，endingatlastinthatshameful，thoughratherforcible，declarationofPettitofIndiana，upontheflooroftheUnitedStatesSenate，thattheDeclarationofIndependencewasinthatrespect"aself—evidentlie，"ratherthanaself—evidenttruth。ButIsay，withaperfectknowledgeofallthishawkingattheDeclarationwithoutdirectlyattackingit，thatthreeyearsagothereneverhadlivedamanwhohadventuredtoassailitinthesneakingwayofpretendingtobelieveit，andthenassertingitdidnotincludethenegro。I

believethefirstmanwhoeversaiditwasChiefJusticeTaneyintheDredScottcase，andthenexttohimwasourfriendStephenA。

Douglas。Andnowithasbecomethecatchwordoftheentireparty。I

wouldliketocalluponhisfriendseverywheretoconsiderhowtheyhavecomeinsoshortatimetoviewthismatterinawaysoentirelydifferentfromtheirformerbelief；toaskwhethertheyarenotbeingbornealongbyanirresistiblecurrent，——whither，theyknownot。

InanswertomypropositionatGalesburghlastweek，IseethatsomemaninChicagohasgotupaletter，addressedtotheChicagoTimes，toshow，asheprofesses，thatsomebodyhadsaidsobefore；andhesignshimself"AnOld—LineWhig，"ifIremembercorrectly。Inthefirstplace，Iwouldsayhewasnotanold—lineWhig。Iamsomewhatacquaintedwithold—lineWhigsfromtheorigintotheendofthatparty；Ibecameprettywellacquaintedwiththem，andIknowtheyalwayshadsomesense，whateverelseyoucouldascribetothem。I

knowthereneverwasonewhohadnotmoresensethantotrytoshowbytheevidenceheproducesthatsomemenhad，priortothetimeI

named，saidthatnegroeswerenotincludedintheterm"allmen"intheDeclarationofIndependence。Whatistheevidenceheproduces？

Iwillbringforwardhisevidence，andletyouseewhatheoffersbywayofshowingthatsomebodymorethanthreeyearsagohadsaidnegroeswerenotincludedintheDeclaration。HebringsforwardpartofaspeechfromHenryClay，——thepartofthespeechofHenryClaywhichIusedtobringforwardtoprovepreciselythecontrary。I

guesswearesurroundedtosomeextentto—daybytheoldfriendsofMr。Clay，andtheywillbegladtohearanythingfromthatauthority。

WhilehewasinIndianaamanpresentedapetitiontoliberatehisnegroes，andhe(Mr。Clay)madeaspeechinanswertoit，whichI

supposehecarefullywroteouthimselfandcausedtobepublished。I

havebeforemeanextractfromthatspeechwhichconstitutestheevidencethispretended"Old—LineWhig"atChicagobroughtforwardtoshowthatMr。Claydidn’tsupposethenegrowasincludedintheDeclarationofIndependence。HearwhatMr。Claysaid：

"AndwhatisthefoundationofthisappealtomeinIndianatoliberatetheslavesundermycareinKentucky？ItisageneraldeclarationintheactannouncingtotheworldtheindependenceofthethirteenAmericancolonies，thatallmenarecreatedequal。Now，asanabstractprinciple，thereisnodoubtofthetruthofthatdeclaration；anditisdesirable，intheoriginalconstructionofsocietyandinorganizedsocieties，tokeepitinviewasagreatfundamentalprinciple。But，then，Iapprehendthatinnosocietythateverdidexist，orevershallbeformed，wasorcantheequalityassertedamongthemembersofthehumanracebepracticallyenforcedandcarriedout。Thereareportions，largeportions，women，minors，insane，culprits，transientsojourners，thatwillalwaysprobablyremainsubjecttothegovernmentofanotherportionofthecommunity。

"Thatdeclaration，whatevermaybetheextentofitsimport，wasmadebythedelegationsofthethirteenStates。Inmostofthemslaveryexisted，andhadlongexisted，andwasestablishedbylaw。ItwasintroducedandforceduponthecoloniesbytheparamountlawofEngland。DoyoubelievethatinmakingthatdeclarationtheStatesthatconcurredinitintendedthatitshouldbetorturedintoavirtualemancipationofalltheslaveswithintheirrespectivelimits？WouldVirginiaandotherSouthernStateshaveeverunitedinadeclarationwhichwastobeinterpretedintoanabolitionofslaveryamongthem？Didanyoneofthethirteencoloniesentertainsuchadesignorexpectation？Toimputesuchasecretandunavowedpurpose，wouldbetochargeapoliticalfrauduponthenoblestbandofpatriotsthateverassembledincouncil，——afraudupontheConfederacyoftheRevolution；afraudupontheunionofthoseStateswhoseConstitutionnotonlyrecognizedthelawfulnessofslavery，butpermittedtheimportationofslavesfromAfricauntiltheyear1808。"

Thisistheentirequotationbroughtforwardtoprovethatsomebodyprevioustothreeyearsagohadsaidthenegrowasnotincludedintheterm"allmen"intheDeclaration。Howdoesitdoso？Inwhatwayhasitatendencytoprovethat？Mr。Claysaysitistrueasanabstractprinciplethatallmenarecreatedequal，butthatwecannotpracticallyapplyitinalleases。Heillustratesthisbybringingforwardthecasesoffemales，minors，andinsanepersons，withwhomitcannotbeenforced；buthesaysitistrueasanabstractprincipleintheorganizationofsocietyaswellasinorganizedsocietyanditshouldbekeptinviewasafundamentalprinciple。

LetmereadafewwordsmorebeforeIaddsomecommentsofmyown。

Mr。Claysays，alittlefurtheron：

"Idesirenoconcealmentofmyopinionsinregardtotheinstitutionofslavery。Ilookuponitasagreatevil，anddeeplylamentthatwehavederiveditfromtheparentalgovernmentandfromourancestors。IwisheveryslaveintheUnitedStateswasinthecountryofhisancestors。Butheretheyare，andthequestionis，Howcantheybebestdealtwith？Ifastateofnatureexisted，andwewereabouttolaythefoundationsofsociety，nomanwouldbemorestronglyopposedthanIshouldbetoincorporatetheinstitutionofslaveryamongstitselements。"

Now，hereinthissamebook，inthissamespeech，inthissameextract，broughtforwardtoprovethatMr。ClayheldthatthenegrowasnotincludedintheDeclarationofIndependence，isnosuchstatementonhispart，butthedeclarationthatitisagreatfundamentaltruthwhichshouldbeconstantlykeptinviewintheorganizationofsocietyandinsocietiesalreadyorganized。ButifI

sayawordaboutit；ifIattempt，asMr。Claysaidallgoodmenoughttodo，tokeepitinview；if，inthis"organizedsociety，"I

asktohavethepubliceyeturneduponit；ifIask，inrelationtotheorganizationofnewTerritories，thatthepubliceyeshouldbeturneduponit，forthwithIamvilifiedasyouhearmeto—day。whathaveIdonethatIhavenotthelicenseofHenryClay’sillustriousexamplehereindoing？HaveIdoneaughtthatIhavenothisauthorityfor，whilemaintainingthatinorganizingnewTerritoriesandsocietiesthisfundamentalprincipleshouldberegarded，andinorganizedsocietyholdingituptothepublicviewandrecognizingwhatherecognizedasthegreatprincipleoffreegovernment？

Andwhenthisnewprinciple——thisnewpropositionthatnohumanbeingeverthoughtofthreeyearsago——isbroughtforward，Icombatitashavinganeviltendency，ifnotanevildesign。Icombatitashavingatendencytodehumanizethenegro，totakeawayfromhimtherightofeverstrivingtobeaman。Icombatitasbeingoneofthethousandthingsconstantlydoneinthesedaystopreparethepublicmindtomakeproperty，andnothingbutproperty，ofthenegroinalltheStatesofthisUnion。

ButthereisapointthatIwish，beforeleavingthispartofthediscussion，toaskattentionto。IhavereadandIrepeatthewordsofHenryClay：

"Idesirenoconcealmentofmyopinionsinregardtotheinstitutionofslavery。Ilookuponitasagreatevil，anddeeplylamentthatwehavederiveditfromtheparentalgovernmentandfromourancestors。IwisheveryslaveintheUnitedStateswasinthecountryofhisancestors。Butheretheyare，andthequestionis，Howcantheybebestdealtwith？Ifastateofnatureexisted，andwewereabouttolaythefoundationsofsociety，nomanwouldbemorestronglyopposedthanIshouldbetoincorporatetheinstitutionofslaveryamongstitselements。"

TheprincipleuponwhichIhaveinsistedinthiscanvassisinrelationtolayingthefoundationsofnewsocieties。IhaveneversoughttoapplytheseprinciplestotheoldStatesforthepurposeofabolishingslaveryinthoseStates。ItisnothingbutamiserableperversionofwhatIhavesaid，toassumethatIhavedeclaredMissouri，oranyotherslaveState，shallemancipateherslaves；I

haveproposednosuchthing。ButwhenMr。ClaysaysthatinlayingthefoundationsofsocietyinourTerritorieswhereitdoesnotexist，hewouldbeopposedtotheintroductionofslaveryasanelement，Iinsistthatwehavehiswarrant——hislicense——forinsistingupontheexclusionofthatelementwhichhedeclaredinsuchstrongandemphaticlanguagewasmosthurtfultohim。

JudgeDouglashasagainreferredtoaSpringfieldspeechinwhichI

said"ahousedividedagainstitselfcannotstand。"TheJudgehassooftenmadetheentirequotationfromthatspeechthatIcanmakeitfrommemory。Iusedthislanguage：

"Wearenowfarintothefifthyearsinceapolicywasinitiatedwiththeavowedobjectandconfidentpromiseofputtinganendtotheslaveryagitation。Undertheoperationofthispolicy，thatagitationhasnotonlynotceased，buthasconstantlyaugmented。Inmyopinionitwillnotceaseuntilacrisisshallhavebeenreachedandpassed。’Ahousedividedagainstitselfcannotstand。’Ibelievethisgovernmentcannotendurepermanently，halfslaveandhalffree。

Idonotexpectthehousetofall，butIdoexpectitwillceasetobedivided。Itwillbecomeallonething，oralltheother。Eithertheopponentsofslaverywillarrestthefurtherspreadofit，andplaceitwherethepublicmindshallrestinthebeliefthatitisinthecourseofultimateextinction，oritsadvocateswillpushitforwardtillitshallbecomealikelawfulinalltheStates，oldaswellasnew，NorthaswellasSouth。"

ThatextractandthesentimentsexpressedinithavebeenextremelyoffensivetoJudgeDouglas。HehaswarreduponthemasSatanwarsupontheBible。Hisperversionsuponitareendless。Herenowaremyviewsuponitinbrief：

Isaidwewerenowfarintothefifthyearsinceapolicywasinitiatedwiththeavowedobjectandconfidentpromiseofputtinganendtotheslaveryagitation。Isitnotso？WhenthatNebraskaBillwasbroughtforwardfouryearsagolastJanuary，wasitnotforthe"avowedobject"ofputtinganendtotheslaveryagitation？WeweretohavenomoreagitationinCongress；itwasalltobebanishedtotheTerritories。Bytheway，Iwillremarkherethat，asJudgeDouglasisveryfondofcomplimentingMr。Crittendeninthesedays，Mr。Crittendenhassaidtherewasafalsehoodinthatwholebusiness，fortherewasnoslaveryagitationatthattimetoallay。Wewereforalittlewhilequietonthetroublesomething，andthatveryallayingplasterofJudgeDouglas’sstirreditupagain。Butwasitnotunderstoodorintimatedwiththe"confidentpromise"ofputtinganendtotheslaveryagitation？Surelyitwas。IneveryspeechyouheardJudgeDouglasmake，untilhegotintothis"imbroglio，"astheycallit，withtheAdministrationabouttheLecomptonConstitution，everyspeechonthatNebraskaBillwasfullofhisfelicitationsthatwewerejustattheendoftheslaveryagitation。Thelasttipofthelastjointoftheoldserpent’stailwasjustdrawingoutofview。Buthasitprovedso？Ihaveassertedthatunderthatpolicythatagitation"hasnotonlynotceased，buthasconstantlyaugmented。"WhenwasthereeveragreateragitationinCongressthanlastwinter？Whenwasitasgreatinthecountryasto—day？

TherewasacollateralobjectintheintroductionofthatNebraskapolicy，whichwastoclothethepeopleoftheTerritorieswithasuperiordegreeofself—government，beyondwhattheyhadeverhadbefore。Thefirstobjectandthemainoneofconferringuponthepeopleahigherdegreeof"self—government"isaquestionoffacttobedeterminedbyyouinanswertoasinglequestion。Haveyoueverheardorknownofapeopleanywhereonearthwhohadaslittletodoas，inthefirstinstanceofitsuse，thepeopleofKansashadwiththissamerightof"self—government"？Initsmainpolicyandinitscollateralobject，ithasbeennothingbutaliving，creepingliefromthetimeofitsintroductiontillto—day。

IhaveintimatedthatIthoughttheagitationwouldnotceaseuntilacrisisshouldhavebeenreachedandpassed。IhavestatedinwhatwayIthoughtitwouldbereachedandpassed。Ihavesaidthatitmightgoonewayortheother。Wemight，byarrestingthefurtherspreadofit，andplacingitwherethefathersoriginallyplacedit，putitwherethepublicmindshouldrestinthebeliefthatitwasinthecourseofultimateextinction。Thustheagitationmaycease。ItmaybepushedforwarduntilitshallbecomealikelawfulinalltheStates，oldaswellasnew，NorthaswellasSouth。Ihavesaid，andIrepeat，mywishisthatthefurtherspreadofitmaybearrested，andthatitmaybewherethepublicmindshallrestinthebeliefthatitisinthecourseofultimateextinction——IhaveexpressedthatasmywishIentertaintheopinion，uponevidencesufficienttomymind，thatthefathersofthisgovernmentplacedthatinstitutionwherethepublicminddidrestinthebeliefthatitwasinthecourseofultimateextinction。Letmeaskwhytheymadeprovisionthatthesourceofslavery——theAfricanslave—trade——shouldbecutoffattheendoftwentyyears？Whydidtheymakeprovisionthatinallthenewterritoryweownedatthattimeslaveryshouldbeforeverinhibited？Whystopitsspreadinonedirection，andcutoffitssourceinanother，iftheydidnotlooktoitsbeingplacedinthecourseofitsultimateextinction？

Again：theinstitutionofslaveryisonlymentionedintheConstitutionoftheUnitedStatestwoorthreetimes，andinneitherofthesecasesdoestheword"slavery"or"negrorace"occur；butcovertlanguageisusedeachtime，andforapurposefullofsignificance。WhatisthelanguageinregardtotheprohibitionoftheAfricanslave—trade？Itrunsinaboutthisway：

"ThemigrationorimportationofsuchpersonsasanyoftheStatesnowexistingshallthinkpropertoadmit，shallnotbeprohibitedbytheCongresspriortotheyearonethousandeighthundredandeight。"

ThenextallusionintheConstitutiontothequestionofslaveryandtheblackraceisonthesubjectofthebasisofrepresentation，andtherethelanguageusedis：

"RepresentativesanddirecttaxesshallbeapportionedamongtheseveralStateswhichmaybeincludedwithinthisUnion，accordingtotheirrespectivenumbers，whichshallbedeterminedbyaddingtothewholenumberoffreepersons，includingthoseboundtoserviceforatermofyears，andexcludingIndiansnottaxed，three—fifthsofallotherpersons。"

Itsays"persons，"notslaves，notnegroes；butthis"three—fifths"

canbeappliedtonootherclassamongusthanthenegroes。

Lastly，intheprovisionforthereclamationoffugitiveslaves，itissaid：

"NopersonheldtoserviceorlaborinoneState，underthelawsthereof，escapingintoanother，shallinconsequenceofanylaworregulationthereinbedischargedfromsuchserviceorlabor，butshallbedeliveredup，onclaimofthepartytowhomsuchserviceorlabormaybedue。"

Thereagainthereisnomentionoftheword"negro"orofslavery。

Inallthreeoftheseplaces，beingtheonlyallusionstoslaveryintheinstrument，covertlanguageisused。Languageisusednotsuggestingthatslaveryexistedorthattheblackracewereamongus。

AndIunderstandthecontemporaneoushistoryofthosetimestobethatcovertlanguagewasusedwithapurpose，andthatpurposewasthatinourConstitution，whichitwashopedandisstillhopedwillendureforever，——whenitshouldbereadbyintelligentandpatrioticmen，aftertheinstitutionofslaveryhadpassedfromamongus，——

thereshouldbenothingonthefaceofthegreatcharteroflibertysuggestingthatsuchathingasnegroslaveryhadeverexistedamongus。Thisispartoftheevidencethatthefathersofthegovernmentexpectedandintendedtheinstitutionofslaverytocometoanend。

Theyexpectedandintendedthatitshouldbeinthecourseofultimateextinction。AndwhenIsaythatIdesiretoseethefurtherspreadofitarrested，IonlysayIdesiretoseethatdonewhichthefathershavefirstdone。WhenIsayIdesiretoseeitplacedwherethepublicmindwillrestinthebeliefthatitisinthecourseofultimateextinction，IonlysayIdesiretoseeitplacedwheretheyplacedit。Itisnottruethatourfathers，asJudgeDouglasassumes，madethisgovernmentpartslaveandpartfree。Understandthesenseinwhichheputsit。Heassumesthatslaveryisarightfulthingwithinitself，——wasintroducedbytheframersoftheConstitution。Theexacttruthis，thattheyfoundtheinstitutionexistingamongus，andtheyleftitastheyfoundit。Butinmakingthegovernmenttheyleftthisinstitutionwithmanyclearmarksofdisapprobationuponit。Theyfoundslaveryamongthem，andtheyleftitamongthembecauseofthedifficulty——theabsoluteimpossibility——

ofitsimmediateremoval。AndwhenJudgeDouglasasksmewhywecannotletitremainpartslaveandpartfree，asthefathersofthegovernmentmadeit，heasksaquestionbaseduponanassumptionwhichisitselfafalsehood；andIturnuponhimandaskhimthequestion，whenthepolicythatthefathersofthegovernmenthadadoptedinrelationtothiselementamonguswasthebestpolicyintheworld，theonlywisepolicy，theonlypolicythatwecaneversafelycontinueuponthatwillevergiveuspeace，unlessthisdangerouselementmastersusallandbecomesanationalinstitution，——Iturnuponhimandaskhimwhyhecouldnotleaveitalone。Iturnandaskhimwhyhewasdriventothenecessityofintroducinganewpolicyinregardtoit。Hehashimselfsaidheintroducedanewpolicy。Hesaidsoinhisspeechonthe22dofMarchofthepresentyear，1858。

Iaskhimwhyhecouldnotletitremainwhereourfathersplacedit。

Iask，too，ofJudgeDouglasandhisfriendswhyweshallnotagainplacethisinstitutionuponthebasisonwhichthefathersleftit。

Iaskyou，whenheinfersthatIaminfavorofsettingthefreeandslaveStatesatwar，whentheinstitutionwasplacedinthatattitudebythosewhomadetheConstitution，didtheymakeanywar？Ifwehadnowaroutofitwhenthusplaced，whereinisthegroundofbeliefthatweshallhavewaroutofitifwereturntothatpolicy？Havewehadanypeaceuponthismatterspringingfromanyotherbasis？I

maintainthatwehavenot。Ihaveproposednothingmorethanareturntothepolicyofthefathers。

Iconfess，whenIproposeacertainmeasureofpolicy，itisnotenoughformethatIdonotintendanythingevilintheresult，butitisincumbentonmetoshowthatithasnotatendencytothatresult。IhavemetJudgeDouglasinthatpointofview。IhavenotonlymadethedeclarationthatIdonotmeantoproduceaconflictbetweentheStates，butIhavetriedtoshowbyfairreasoning，andI

thinkIhaveshowntothemindsoffairmen，thatIproposenothingbutwhathasamostpeacefultendency。ThequotationthatIhappenedtomakeinthatSpringfieldSpeech，that"ahousedividedagainstitselfcannotstand，"andwhichhasprovedsooffensivetothejudge，waspartandparcelofthesamething。HetriestoshowthatvarietyinthedemocraticinstitutionsofthedifferentStatesisnecessaryandindispensable。Idonotdisputeit。IhavenocontroversywithJudgeDouglasaboutthat。IshallveryreadilyagreewithhimthatitwouldbefoolishforustoinsistuponhavingacranberrylawhereinIllinois，wherewehavenocranberries，becausetheyhaveacranberrylawinIndiana，wheretheyhavecranberries。IshouldinsistthatitwouldbeexceedinglywronginustodenytoVirginiatherighttoenactoysterlaws，wheretheyhaveoysters，becausewewantnosuchlawshere。Iunderstand，Ihope，quiteaswellasJudgeDouglasoranybodyelse，thatthevarietyinthesoilandclimateandfaceofthecountry，andconsequentvarietyintheindustrialpursuitsandproductionsofacountry，requiresystemsoflawconformingtothisvarietyinthenaturalfeaturesofthecountry。I

understandquiteaswellasJudgeDouglasthatifwehereraiseabarrelofflourmorethanwewant，andtheLouisianiansraiseabarrelofsugarmorethantheywant，itisofmutualadvantagetoexchange。Thatproducescommerce，bringsustogether，andmakesusbetterfriends。Welikeoneanotherthemoreforit。AndI

understandaswellasJudgeDouglas，oranybodyelse，thatthesemutualaccommodationsarethecementswhichbindtogetherthedifferentpartsofthisUnion；thatinsteadofbeingathingto"dividethehouse，"——figurativelyexpressingtheUnion，——theytendtosustainit；theyarethepropsofthehouse，tendingalwaystoholditup。

ButwhenIhaveadmittedallthis，Iaskifthereisanyparallelbetweenthesethingsandthisinstitutionofslavery？Idonotseethatthereisanyparallelatallbetweenthem。Considerit。WhenhavewehadanydifficultyorquarrelamongstourselvesaboutthecranberrylawsofIndiana，ortheoysterlawsofVirginia，orthepine—lumberlawsofMaine，orthefactthatLouisianaproducessugar，andIllinoisflour？Whenhavewehadanyquarrelsoverthesethings？

WhenhavewehadperfectpeaceinregardtothisthingwhichIsayisanelementofdiscordinthisUnion？Wehavesometimeshadpeace，butwhenwasit？Itwaswhentheinstitutionofslaveryremainedquietwhereitwas。Wehavehaddifficultyandturmoilwheneverithasmadeastruggletospreaditselfwhereitwasnot。Iask，then，ifexperiencedoesnotspeakinthunder—tonestellingusthatthepolicywhichhasgivenpeacetothecountryheretofore，beingreturnedto，givesthegreatestpromiseofpeaceagain。Youmaysay，andJudgeDouglashasintimatedthesamething，thatallthisdifficultyinregardtotheinstitutionofslaveryisthemereagitationofoffice—seekersandambitiousNorthernpoliticians。Hethinkswewanttoget"hisplace，"Isuppose。Iagreethatthereareoffice—seekersamongstus。TheBiblesayssomewherethatwearedesperatelyselfish。IthinkwewouldhavediscoveredthatfactwithouttheBible。IdonotclaimthatIamanylesssothantheaverageofmen，butIdoclaimthatIamnotmoreselfishthanJudgeDouglas。

Butisittruethatallthedifficultyandagitationwehaveinregardtothisinstitutionofslaveryspringfromoffice—seeking，fromthemereambitionofpoliticians？Isthatthetruth？Howmanytimeshavewehaddangerfromthisquestion？GobacktothedayoftheMissouriCompromise。Gobacktothenullificationquestion，atthebottomofwhichlaythissameslaveryquestion。GobacktothetimeoftheannexationofTexas。GobacktothetroublesthatledtotheCompromiseof1850。Youwillfindthateverytime，withthesingleexceptionoftheNullificationquestion，theysprungfromanendeavortospreadthisinstitution。Thereneverwasapartyinthehistoryofthiscountry，andthereprobablyneverwillbe，ofsufficientstrengthtodisturbthegeneralpeaceofthecountry。

Partiesthemselvesmaybedividedandquarrelonminorquestions，yetitextendsnotbeyondthepartiesthemselves。Butdoesnotthisquestionmakeadisturbanceoutsideofpoliticalcircles？Doesitnotenterintothechurchesandrendthemasunder？

WhatdividedthegreatMethodistChurchintotwoparts，NorthandSouth？WhathasraisedthisconstantdisturbanceineveryPresbyterianGeneralAssemblythatmeets？WhatdisturbedtheUnitarianChurchinthisverycitytwoyearsago？WhathasjarredandshakenthegreatAmericanTractSocietyrecently，notyetsplittingit，butsuretodivideitintheend？Isitnotthissamemighty，deep—seatedpowerthatsomehowoperatesonthemindsofmen，excitingandstirringthemupineveryavenueofsociety，——inpolitics，inreligion，inliterature，inmorals，inallthemanifoldrelationsoflife？Isthistheworkofpoliticians？Isthatirresistiblepower，whichforfiftyyearshasshakenthegovernmentandagitatedthepeople，tobestifledandsubduedbypretendingthatitisanexceedinglysimplething，andweoughtnottotalkaboutit？

Ifyouwillgeteverybodyelsetostoptalkingaboutit，IassureyouIwillquitbeforetheyhavehalfdoneso。Butwhereisthephilosophyorstatesmanshipwhichassumesthatyoucanquietthatdisturbingelementinoursocietywhichhasdisturbedusformorethanhalfacentury，whichhasbeentheonlyseriousdangerthathasthreatenedourinstitutions，——Isay，whereisthephilosophyorthestatesmanshipbasedontheassumptionthatwearetoquittalkingaboutit，andthatthepublicmindisallatoncetoceasebeingagitatedbyit？YetthisisthepolicyhereintheNorththatDouglasisadvocating，thatwearetocarenothingaboutit！Iaskyouifitisnotafalsephilosophy。Isitnotafalsestatesmanshipthatundertakestobuildupasystemofpolicyuponthebasisofcaringnothingabouttheverythingthateverybodydoescarethemostabout——athingwhichallexperiencehasshownwecareaverygreatdealabout？

TheJudgealludesveryofteninthecourseofhisremarkstotheexclusiverightwhichtheStateshavetodecidethewholethingforthemselves。IagreewithhimveryreadilythatthedifferentStateshavethatright。HeisbutfightingamanofstrawwhenheassumesthatIamcontendingagainsttherightoftheStatestodoastheypleaseaboutit。OurcontroversywithhimisinregardtothenewTerritories。WeagreethatwhentheStatescomeinasStatestheyhavetherightandthepowertodoastheyplease。Wehavenopowerascitizensofthefree—States，orinourFederalcapacityasmembersoftheFederalUnionthroughtheGeneralGovernment，todisturbslaveryintheStateswhereitexists。Weprofessconstantlythatwehavenomoreinclinationthanbeliefinthepowerofthegovernmenttodisturbit；yetwearedrivenconstantlytodefendourselvesfromtheassumptionthatwearewarringupontherightsoftheSates。

WhatIinsistuponis，thatthenewTerritoriesshallbekeptfreefromitwhileintheTerritorialcondition。JudgeDouglasassumesthatwehavenointerestinthem，——thatwehavenorightwhatevertointerfere。Ithinkwehavesomeinterest。Ithinkthataswhitemenwehave。Dowenotwishforanoutletforoursurpluspopulation，ifImaysoexpressmyself？Dowenotfeelaninterestingettingtothatoutletwithsuchinstitutionsaswewouldliketohaveprevailthere？IfyougototheTerritoryopposedtoslavery，andanothermancomesuponthesamegroundwithhisslave，upontheassumptionthatthethingsareequal，itturnsoutthathehastheequalrightallhisway，andyouhavenopartofityourway。IfhegoesinandmakesitaslaveTerritory，andbyconsequenceaslaveState，isitnottimethatthosewhodesiretohaveitafreeStatewereonequalground？Letmesuggestitinadifferentway。HowmanyDemocratsarethereabouthere["Athousand"]whohaveleftslaveStatesandcomeintothefreeStateofIllinoistogetridoftheinstitutionofslavery？[Anothervoice：’Athousandandone。"]Ireckonthereareathousandandone。Iwillaskyou，ifthepolicyyouarenowadvocatinghadprevailedwhenthiscountrywasinaTerritorialcondition，wherewouldyouhavegonetogetridofit？WherewouldyouhavefoundyourfreeStateorTerritorytogoto？Andwhenhereafter，foranycause，thepeopleinthisplaceshalldesiretofindnewhomes，iftheywishtoberidoftheinstitution，wherewilltheyfindtheplacetogoto？

Now，irrespectiveofthemoralaspectofthisquestionastowhetherthereisarightorwronginenslavinganegro，IamstillinfavorofournewTerritoriesbeinginsuchaconditionthatwhitemenmayfindahome，——mayfindsomespotwheretheycanbettertheircondition；wheretheycansettleuponnewsoilandbettertheirconditioninlife。Iaminfavorofthis，notmerely(ImustsayithereasIhaveelsewhere)forourownpeoplewhoarebornamongstus，butasanoutletforfreewhitepeopleeverywheretheworldover——inwhichHans，andBaptiste，andPatrick，andallothermenfromalltheworld，mayfindnewhomesandbettertheirconditionsinlife。

Ihavestateduponformeroccasions，andImayaswellstateagain，whatIunderstandtobetherealissueinthiscontroversybetweenJudgeDouglasandmyself。OnthepointofmywantingtomakewarbetweenthefreeandtheslaveStates，therehasbeennoissuebetweenus。So，too，whenheassumesthatIaminfavorofproducingaperfectsocialandpoliticalequalitybetweenthewhiteandblackraces。Thesearefalseissues，uponwhichJudgeDouglashastriedtoforcethecontroversy。ThereisnofoundationintruthforthechargethatImaintaineitherofthesepropositions。Therealissueinthiscontroversy——theonepressinguponeverymind——isthesentimentonthepartofoneclassthatlooksupontheinstitutionofslaveryasawrong，andofanotherclassthatdoesnotlookuponitasawrong。ThesentimentthatcontemplatestheinstitutionofslaveryinthiscountryasawrongisthesentimentoftheRepublicanparty。Itisthesentimentaroundwhichalltheiractions，alltheirarguments，circle，fromwhichalltheirpropositionsradiate。Theylookuponitasbeingamoral，social，andpoliticalwrong；andwhiletheycontemplateita，such，theyneverthelesshavedueregardforitsactualexistenceamongus，andthedifficultiesofgettingridofitinanysatisfactoryway，andtoalltheconstitutionalobligationsthrownaboutit。Yet，havingadueregardforthese，theydesireapolicyinregardtoitthatlookstoitsnotcreatinganymoredanger。Theyinsistthatitshould，asfarasmaybe，betreatedasawrong；andoneofthemethodsoftreatingitasawrongistomakeprovisionthatitshallgrownolarger。Theyalsodesireapolicythatlookstoapeacefulendofslaveryatsometime。ThesearetheviewstheyentertaininregardtoitasIunderstandthem；andalltheirsentiments，alltheirargumentsandpropositions，arebroughtwithinthisrange。Ihavesaid，andIrepeatithere，thatiftherebeamanamongstuswhodoesnotthinkthattheinstitutionofslaveryiswronginanyoneoftheaspectsofwhichIhavespoken，heismisplaced，andoughtnottobewithus。Andiftherebeamanamongstuswhoissoimpatientofitasawrongastodisregarditsactualpresenceamongusandthedifficultyofgettingridofitsuddenlyinasatisfactoryway，andtodisregardtheconstitutionalobligationsthrownaboutit，thatmanismisplacedifheisonourplatform。Wedisclaimsympathywithhiminpracticalaction。Heisnotplacedproperlywithus。

Onthissubjectoftreatingitasawrong，andlimitingitsspread，letmesayaword。HasanythingeverthreatenedtheexistenceofthisUnionsaveandexceptthisveryinstitutionofslavery？Whatisitthatweholdmostdearamongstus？Ourownlibertyandprosperity。Whathaseverthreatenedourlibertyandprosperity，saveandexceptthisinstitutionofslavery？Ifthisistrue，howdoyouproposetoimprovetheconditionofthingsbyenlargingslavery，byspreadingitoutandmakingitbigger？Youmayhaveawenorcanceruponyourperson，andnotbeabletocutitout，lestyoubleedtodeath；butsurelyitisnowaytocureit，toengraftitandspreaditoveryourwholebody。Thatisnoproperwayoftreatingwhatyouregardawrong。Youseethispeacefulwayofdealingwithitasawrong，restrictingthespreadofit，andnotallowingittogointonewcountrieswhereithasnotalreadyexisted。Thatisthepeacefulway，theold—fashionedway，thewayinwhichthefathersthemselvessetustheexample。

Ontheotherhand，Ihavesaidthereisasentimentwhichtreatsitasnotbeingwrong。ThatistheDemocraticsentimentofthisday。I

donotmeantosaythateverymanwhostandswithinthatrangepositivelyassertsthatitisright。Thatclasswillincludeallwhopositivelyassertthatitisright，andallwho，likeJudgeDouglas，treatitasindifferentanddonotsayitiseitherrightorwrong。