第15章

"Butallthis，tomyjudgment，furnishesnomoreexcuseforpermittingslaverytogointoourownfreeterritorythanitwouldforrevivingtheAfricanslave—tradebylaw。ThelawwhichforbidsthebringingofslavesfromAfrica，andthatwhichhassolongforbidthetakingofthemtoNebraska，canhardlybedistinguishedonanymoralprinciple；andtherepealoftheformercouldfindquiteasplausibleexcusesasthatofthelatter。"

IhavereasontoknowthatJudgeDouglasknowsthatIsaidthis。

Ithinkhehastheanswerheretooneofthequestionsheputtome。Idonotmeantoallowhimtocatechizemeunlesshepaysbackforitinkind。Iwillnotanswerquestionsoneafteranother，unlesshereciprocates；butashehasmadethisinquiry，andIhaveanswereditbefore，hehasgotitwithoutmygettinganythinginreturn。HehasgotmyanswerontheFugitiveSlavelaw。

Now，gentlemen，Idon’twanttoreadatanygreaterlength；butthisisthetruecomplexionofallIhaveeversaidinregardtotheinstitutionofslaveryandtheblackrace。Thisisthewholeofit；andanythingthatarguesmeintohisideaofperfectsocialandpoliticalequalitywiththenegroisbutaspeciousandfantasticarrangementofwords，bywhichamancanproveahorse—chestnuttobeachestnuthorse。Iwillsayhere，whileuponthissubject，thatIhavenopurpose，directlyorindirectly，tointerferewiththeinstitutionofslaveryintheStateswhereitexists。IbelieveIhavenolawfulrighttodoso，andIhavenoinclinationtodoso。Ihavenopurposetointroducepoliticalandsocialequalitybetweenthewhiteandtheblackraces。Thereisaphysicaldifferencebetweenthetwowhich，inmyjudgment，willprobablyforeverforbidtheirlivingtogetheruponthefootingofperfectequality；andinasmuchasitbecomesanecessitythattheremustbeadifference，I，aswellasJudgeDouglas，aminfavoroftheracetowhichIbelonghavingthesuperiorposition。Ihaveneversaidanythingtothecontrary，butIholdthat，notwithstandingallthis，thereisnoreasonintheworldwhythenegroisnotentitledtoallthenaturalrightsenumeratedintheDeclarationofIndependence，therighttolife，liberty，andthepursuitofhappiness。Iholdthatheisasmuchentitledtotheseasthewhiteman。IagreewithJudgeDouglasheisnotmyequalinmanyrespects，certainlynotincolor，perhapsnotinmoralorintellectualendowment。

Butintherighttoeatthebread，withouttheleaveofanybodyelse，whichhisownhandearns，heismyequal，andtheequalofJudgeDouglas，andtheequalofeverylivingman。

NowIpassontoconsideroneortwomoreoftheselittlefollies。TheJudgeiswoefullyatfaultabouthisearlyfriendLincolnbeinga"grocery—keeper。"Idon’tknowasitwouldbeagreatsin，ifIhadbeen；butheismistaken。Lincolnneverkeptagroceryanywhereintheworld。ItistruethatLincolndidworkthelatterpartofonewinterinalittlestillhouse，upattheheadofahollow。AndsoIthinkmyfriendtheJudgeisequallyatfaultwhenhechargesmeatthetimewhenIwasinCongressofhavingopposedoursoldierswhowerefightingintheMexicanwar。TheJudgedidnotmakehischargeverydistinctly，butIcantellyouwhathecanprove，byreferringtotherecord。

YourememberIwasanoldWhig，andwhenevertheDemocraticpartytriedtogetmetovotethatthewarhadbeenrighteouslybegunbythePresident，Iwouldnotdoit。Butwhenevertheyaskedforanymoney，orlandwarrants，oranythingtopaythesoldiersthere，duringallthattime，IgavethesamevotethatJudgeDouglasdid。Youcanthinkasyoupleaseastowhetherthatwasconsistent。Suchisthetruth，andtheJudgehastherighttomakeallhecanoutofit。Butwhenhe，byageneralcharge，conveystheideathatIwithheldsuppliesfromthesoldierswhowerefightingintheMexicanwar，ordidanythingelsetohinderthesoldiers，heis，tosaytheleast，grosslyandaltogethermistaken，asaconsultationoftherecordswillprovetohim。

AsIhavenotusedupsomuchofmytimeasIhadsupposed，I

willdwellalittlelongerupononeortwooftheseminortopicsuponwhichtheJudgehasspoken。HehasreadfrommyspeechinSpringfield，inwhichIsaythat"ahousedividedagainstitselfcannotstand"DoestheJudgesayitcanstand？Idon’tknowwhetherhedoesornot。TheJudgedoesnotseemtobeattendingtomejustnow，butIwouldliketoknowifitishisopinionthatahousedividedagainstitselfcanstand。Ifhedoes，thenthereisaquestionofveracity，notbetweenhimandme，butbetweentheJudgeandanAuthorityofasomewhathighercharacter。

Now，myfriends，Iaskyourattentiontothismatterforthepurposeofsayingsomethingseriously。IknowthattheJudgemayreadilyenoughagreewithmethatthemaximwhichwasputforthbytheSavioristrue，buthemayallegethatImisapplyit；andtheJudgehasarighttourgethat，inmyapplication，Idomisapplyit，andthenIhavearighttoshowthatIdonotmisapplyit，WhenheundertakestosaythatbecauseIthinkthisnation，sofarasthequestionofslaveryisconcerned，willallbecomeonethingoralltheother，IaminfavorofbringingaboutadeaduniformityinthevariousStates，inalltheirinstitutions，heargueserroneously。ThegreatvarietyofthelocalinstitutionsintheStates，springingfromdifferencesinthesoil，differencesinthefaceofthecountry，andintheclimate，arebondsofUnion。Theydonotmake"ahousedividedagainstitself，"buttheymakeahouseunited。Iftheyproduceinonesectionofthecountrywhatiscalledfor，bythewantsofanothersection，andthisothersectioncansupplythewantsofthefirst，theyarenotmattersofdiscord，butbondsofunion，truebondsofunion。Butcanthisquestionofslaverybeconsideredasamongthesevarietiesintheinstitutionsofthecountry？Ileaveittoyoutosaywhether，inthehistoryofourgovernment，thisinstitutionofslaveryhasnotalwaysfailedtobeabondofunion，and，onthecontrary，beenanappleofdiscordandanelementofdivisioninthehouse。Iaskyoutoconsiderwhether，solongasthemoralconstitutionofmen’smindsshallcontinuetobethesame，afterthisgenerationandassemblageshallsinkintothegrave，andanotherraceshallarise，withthesamemoralandintellectualdevelopmentwehave，whether，ifthatinstitutionisstandinginthesameirritatingpositioninwhichitnowis，itwillnotcontinueanelementofdivision？Ifso，thenIhavearighttosaythat，inregardtothisquestion，theUnionisahousedividedagainstitself；andwhentheJudgeremindsmethatIhaveoftensaidtohimthattheinstitutionofslaveryhasexistedforeightyyearsinsomeStates，andyetitdoesnotexistinsomeothers，Iagreetothefact，andIaccountforitbylookingatthepositioninwhichourfathersoriginallyplacedit——restrictingitfromthenewTerritorieswhereithadnotgone，andlegislatingtocutoffitssourcebytheabrogationoftheslavetrade，thusputtingthesealoflegislationagainstitsspread。Thepublicminddidrestinthebeliefthatitwasinthecourseofultimateextinction。

Butlately，Ithink——andinthisIchargenothingontheJudge’smotives——lately，Ithinkthathe，andthoseactingwithhim，haveplacedthatinstitutiononanewbasis，whichlookstotheperpetuityandnationalizationofslavery。Andwhileitisplaceduponthisnewbasis，Isay，andIhavesaid，thatI

believeweshallnothavepeaceuponthequestionuntiltheopponentsofslaveryarrestthefurtherspreadofit，andplaceitwherethepublicmindshallrestinthebeliefthatitisinthecourseofultimateextinction；or，ontheotherhand，thatitsadvocateswillpushitforwarduntilitshallbecomealikelawfulinalltheStates，oldaswellasnew，NorthaswellasSouth。Now，Ibelieveifwecouldarrestthespread，andplaceitwhereWashingtonandJeffersonandMadisonplacedit，itwouldbeinthecourseofultimateextinction，andthepublicmindwould，asforeightyyearspast，believethatitwasinthecourseofultimateextinction。Thecrisiswouldbepast，andtheinstitutionmightbeletaloneforahundredyears，ifitshouldlivesolong，intheStateswhereitexists；yetitwouldbegoingoutofexistenceinthewaybestforboththeblackandthewhiteraces。

[Avoice："Thendoyourepudiatepopularsovereignty？"]

Well，then，letustalkaboutpopularsovereignty！whatispopularsovereignty？Isittherightofthepeopletohaveslaveryornothaveit，astheyseefit，intheTerritories？I

willstate——andIhaveanablemantowatchme——myunderstandingisthatpopularsovereignty，asnowappliedtothequestionofslavery，doesallowthepeopleofaTerritorytohaveslaveryiftheywantto，butdoesnotallowthemnottohaveitiftheydonotwantit。IdonotmeanthatifthisvastconcourseofpeoplewereinaTerritoryoftheUnitedStates，anyoneofthemwouldbeobligedtohaveaslaveifhedidnotwantone；butIdosaythat，asIunderstandtheDredScottdecision，ifanyonemanwantsslaves，alltheresthavenowayofkeepingthatonemanfromholdingthem。

WhenImademyspeechatSpringfield，ofwhichtheJudgecomplains，andfromwhichhequotes，Ireallywasnotthinkingofthethingswhichheascribestomeatall。IhadnothoughtintheworldthatIwasdoinganythingtobringaboutawarbetweenthefreeandslavestates。IhadnothoughtintheworldthatI

wasdoinganythingtobringaboutapoliticalandsocialequalityoftheblackandwhiteraces。ItneveroccurredtomethatIwasdoinganythingorfavoringanythingtoreducetoadeaduniformityallthelocalinstitutionsofthevariousStates。ButImustsay，inallfairnesstohim，ifhethinksIamdoingsomethingwhichleadstothesebadresults，itisnonethebetterthatIdidnotmeanit。Itisjustasfataltothecountry，ifI

haveanyinfluenceinproducingit，whetherIintenditornot。

Butcanitbetruethatplacingthisinstitutionupontheoriginalbasis——thebasisuponwhichourfathersplacedit——canhaveanytendencytosettheNorthernandtheSouthernStatesatwarwithoneanother，orthatitcanhaveanytendencytomakethepeopleofVermontraisesugar—cane，becausetheyraiseitinLouisiana，orthatitcancompelthepeopleofIllinoistocutpinelogsontheGrandPrairie，wheretheywillnotgrow，becausetheycutpinelogsinMaine，wheretheydogrow？TheJudgesaysthisisanewprinciplestartedinregardtothisquestion。DoestheJudgeclaimthatheisworkingontheplanofthefoundersofgovernment？Ithinkhesaysinsomeofhisspeechesindeed，I

haveoneherenow——thathesawevidenceofapolicytoallowslaverytobesouthofacertainline，whilenorthofititshouldbeexcluded，andhesawanindispositiononthepartofthecountrytostanduponthatpolicy，andthereforehesetaboutstudyingthesubjectuponoriginalprinciples，anduponoriginalprincipleshegotuptheNebraskaBill！Iamfightingituponthese"originalprinciples，fightingitintheJeffersonian，Washingtonian，andMadisonianfashion。

Now，myfriends，IwishyoutoattendforalittlewhiletooneortwootherthingsinthatSpringfieldspeech。Mymainobjectwastoshow，sofarasmyhumbleabilitywascapableofshowing，tothepeopleofthiscountrywhatIbelievedwasthetruth，——

thattherewasatendency，ifnotaconspiracy，amongthosewhohaveengineeredthisslaveryquestionforthelastfourorfiveyears，tomakeslaveryperpetualanduniversalinthisnation。

Havingmadethatspeechprincipallyforthatobject，afterarrangingtheevidencesthatIthoughttendedtoprovemyproposition，Iconcludedwiththisbitofcomment：

"Wecannotabsolutelyknowthattheseexactadaptationsaretheresultofpreconcert；butwhenweseealotofframedtimbers，differentportionsofwhichweknowhavebeengottenoutatdifferenttimesandplaces，andbydifferentworkmen——Stephen，Franklin，Roger，andJames，forinstance，——andwhenweseethesetimbersjoinedtogether，andseetheyexactlymaketheframeofahouseoramill，allthetenonsandmortisesexactlyfitting，andallthelengthsandproportionsofthedifferentpiecesexactlyadaptedtotheirrespectiveplaces，andnotapiecetoomanyortoofew，——notomittingeventhescaffolding，——orifasinglepiecebelacking，weseetheplaceintheframeexactlyfittedandpreparedyettobringsuchpiecein，——insuchacasewefeelitimpossiblenottobelievethatStephenandFranklinandRogerandJamesallunderstoodoneanotherfromthebeginning，andallworkeduponacommonplanordraftdrawnbeforethefirstblowwasstruck。"

WhenmyfriendJudgeDouglascametoChicagoonthe9thofJuly，thisspeechhavingbeendeliveredonthe16thofJune，hemadeanharanguethere，inwhichhetookholdofthisspeechofmine，showingthathehadcarefullyreadit；andwhilehepaidnoattentiontothismatteratall，butcomplimentedmeasbeinga"kind，amiable，andintelligentgentleman，"notwithstandingIhadsaidthis，hegoesonandeliminates，ordrawsout，frommyspeechthistendencyofminetosettheStatesatwarwithoneanother，tomakealltheinstitutionsuniform，andsettheniggersandwhitepeopletomarryingtogether。Then，astheJudgehadcomplimentedmewiththesepleasanttitles(Imustconfesstomyweakness)，Iwasalittle"taken，"foritcamefromagreatman。Iwasnotverymuchaccustomedtoflattery，anditcamethesweetertome。IwasratherliketheHoosier，withthegingerbread，whenhesaidhereckonedheloveditbetterthananyotherman，andgotlessofit。AstheJudgehadsoflatteredme，Icouldnotmakeupmymindthathemeanttodealunfairlywithme；soIwenttoworktoshowhimthathemisunderstoodthewholescopeofmyspeech，andthatIreallyneverintendedtosetthepeopleatwarwithoneanother。Asanillustration，thenexttimeImethim，whichwasatSpringfield，Iusedthisexpression，thatIclaimednorightundertheConstitution，norhadIanyinclination，toenterintotheslaveStatesandinterferewiththeinstitutionsofslavery。Hesaysuponthat：LincolnwillnotenterintotheslaveStates，butwillgotothebanksoftheOhio，onthisside，andshootover！Herunson，stepbystep，inthehorse—chestnutstyleofargument，untilintheSpringfieldspeechhesays："UnlessheshallbesuccessfulinfiringhisbatteriesuntilheshallhaveextinguishedslaveryinalltheStatestheUnionshallbedissolved。"Now，Idon’tthinkthatwasexactlythewaytotreat"akind，amiable，intelligentgentleman。"IknowifIhadaskedtheJudgetoshowwhenorwhereitwasIhadsaidthat，ifIdidn’tsucceedinfiringintotheslaveStatesuntilslaveryshouldbeextinguished，theUnionshouldbedissolved，hecouldnothaveshownit。Iunderstandwhathewoulddo。Hewouldsay：Idon’tmeantoquotefromyou，butthiswastheresultofwhatyousay。ButIhavetherighttoask，andIdoasknow，Didyounotputitinsuchaformthatanordinaryreaderorlistenerwouldtakeitasanexpressionfromme？

InaspeechatSpringfield，onthenightofthe17th，IthoughtI

mightaswellattendtomyownbusinessalittle，andIrecalledhisattentionaswellasIcouldtothischargeofconspiracytonationalizeslavery。Icalledhisattentiontothefactthathehadacknowledgedinmyhearingtwicethathehadcarefullyreadthespeech，and，inthelanguageofthelawyers，ashehadtwicereadthespeech，andstillhadputinnopleaoranswer，Itookadefaultonhim。IinsistedthatIhadarightthentorenewthatchargeofconspiracy。TendaysafterwardImettheJudgeatClinton，——thatistosay，Iwasontheground，butnotinthediscussion，——andheardhimmakeaspeech。Thenhecomesinwithhispleatothischarge，forthefirsttime；andhispleawhenputin，aswellasIcanrecollectit，amountedtothis：thatheneverhadanytalkwithJudgeTaneyorthePresidentoftheUnitedStateswithregardtotheDredScottdecisionbeforeitwasmade。I(Lincoln)oughttoknowthatthemanwhomakesachargewithoutknowingittobetruefalsifiesasmuchashewhoknowinglytellsafalsehood；and，lastly，thathewouldpronouncethewholethingafalsehood；but，hewouldmakenopersonalapplicationofthechargeoffalsehood，notbecauseofanyregardforthe"kind，amiable，intelligentgentleman，"butbecauseofhisownpersonalself—respect！Ihaveunderstoodsincethen(but[turningtoJudgeDouglas]willnotholdtheJudgetoitifheisnotwilling)thathehasbrokenthroughthe"self—respect，"andhasgottosayingthethingout。TheJudgenodstomethatitisso。ItisfortunateformethatIcankeepasgood—humoredasI

do，whentheJudgeacknowledgesthathehasbeentryingtomakeaquestionofveracitywithme。IknowtheJudgeisagreatman，whileIamonlyasmallman，butIfeelthatIhavegothim。I

demurtothatplea。Iwaiveallobjectionsthatitwasnotfiledtillafterdefaultwastaken，anddemurtoituponthemerits。

WhatifJudgeDouglasneverdidtalkwithChiefJusticeTaneyandthePresidentbeforetheDredScottdecisionwasmade，doesitfollowthathecouldnothavehadasperfectanunderstandingwithouttalkingaswithit？Iamnotdisposedtostanduponmylegaladvantage。Iamdisposedtotakehisdenialasbeinglikeananswerinchancery，thatheneitherhadanyknowledge，information，orbeliefintheexistenceofsuchaconspiracy。I

amdisposedtotakehisanswerasbeingasbroadasthoughhehadputitinthesewords。Andnow，Iask，evenifhehaddoneso，havenotIarighttoproveitonhim，andtooffertheevidenceofmorethantwowitnesses，bywhomtoproveit；andiftheevidenceprovestheexistenceoftheconspiracy，doeshisbroaderanswerdenyingallknowledge，information，orbelief，disturbthefact？Itcanonlyshowthathewasusedbyconspirators，andwasnotaleaderofthem。

Now，inregardtohisremindingmeofthemoralrulethatpersonswhotellwhattheydonotknowtobetruefalsifyasmuchasthosewhoknowinglytellfalsehoods。Iremembertherule，anditmustbeborneinmindthatinwhatIhavereadtoyou，IdonotsaythatIknowsuchaconspiracytoexist。TothatIreply，I

believeit。IftheJudgesaysthatIdonotbelieveit，thenhesayswhathedoesnotknow，andfallswithinhisownrule，thathewhoassertsathingwhichhedoesnotknowtobetrue，falsifiesasmuchashewhoknowinglytellsafalsehood。Iwanttocallyourattentiontoalittlediscussiononthatbranchofthecase，andtheevidencewhichbroughtmymindtotheconclusionwhichIexpressedasmybelief。If，inarrayingthatevidenceIhadstatedanythingwhichwasfalseorerroneous，itneededbutthatJudgeDouglasshouldpointitout，andIwouldhavetakenitback，withallthekindnessintheworld。Idonotdealinthatway。IfIhavebroughtforwardanythingnotafact，ifhewillpointitout，itwillnotevenrufflemetotakeitback。Butifhewillnotpointoutanythingerroneousintheevidence，isitnotratherforhimtoshow，byacomparisonoftheevidence，thatIhavereasonedfalsely，thantocallthe"kind，amiable，intelligentgentleman"aliar？IfIhavereasonedtoafalseconclusion，itisthevocationofanabledebatertoshowbyargumentthatIhavewanderedtoanerroneousconclusion。IwanttoaskyourattentiontoaportionoftheNebraskaBill，whichJudgeDouglashasquoted：

"ItbeingthetrueintentandmeaningofthisAct，nottolegislateslaveryintoanyTerritoryorState，nortoexcludeittherefrom，buttoleavethepeoplethereofperfectlyfreetoformandregulatetheirdomesticinstitutionsintheirownway，subjectonlytotheConstitutionoftheUnitedStates。"

ThereuponJudgeDouglasandothersbegantoargueinfavorof"popularsovereignty，"therightofthepeopletohaveslavesiftheywantedthem，andtoexcludeslaveryiftheydidnotwantthem。"But，"said，insubstance，aSenatorfromOhio(Mr。Chase，Ibelieve)，"wemorethansuspectthatyoudonotmeantoallowthepeopletoexcludeslaveryiftheywishto；andifyoudomeanit，acceptanamendmentwhichIpropose，expresslyauthorizingthepeopletoexcludeslavery。"

IbelieveIhavetheamendmentherebeforeme，whichwasoffered，andunderwhichthepeopleoftheTerritory，throughtheirrepresentatives，might，iftheysawfit，prohibittheexistenceofslaverytherein。AndnowIstateitasafact，tobetakenbackifthereisanymistakeaboutit，thatJudgeDouglasandthoseactingwithhimvotedthatamendmentdown。Inowthinkthatthosemenwhovoteditdownhadarealreasonfordoingso。

Theyknowwhatthatreasonwas。Itlookstous，sincewehaveseentheDredScottdecisionpronounced，holdingthat"undertheConstitution"thepeoplecannotexcludeslavery，Isayitlookstooutsiders，poor，simple，"amiable，intelligentgentlemen，"asthoughthenichewasleftasaplacetoputthatDredScottdecisionin，——anichewhichwouldhavebeenspoiledbyadoptingtheamendment。Andnow，Isayagain，ifthiswasnotthereason，itwillavailtheJudgemuchmoretocalmlyandgood—humoredlypointouttothesepeoplewhatthatotherreasonwasforvotingtheamendmentdown，than，swellinghimselfup，tovociferatethathemaybeprovokedtocallsomebodyaliar。

Again：ThereisinthatsamequotationfromtheNebraskaBillthisclause："ItbeingthetrueintentandmeaningofthisbillnottolegislateslaveryintoanyTerritoryorState。"Ihavealwaysbeenpuzzledtoknowwhatbusinesstheword"State"hadinthatconnection。JudgeDouglasknows。Heputitthere。Heknowswhatheputittherefor。Weoutsiderscannotsaywhatheputittherefor。ThelawtheywerepassingwasnotaboutStates，andwasnotmakingprovisionsforStates。Whatwasitplacedtherefor？AfterseeingtheDredScottdecision，whichholdsthatthepeoplecannotexcludeslaveryfromaTerritory，ifanotherDredScottdecisionshallcome，holdingthattheycannotexcludeitfromaState，weshalldiscoverthatwhenthewordwasoriginallyputthere，itwasinviewofsomethingwhichwastocomeinduetime，weshallseethatitwastheotherhalfofsomething。Inowsayagain，ifthereisanydifferentreasonforputtingitthere，JudgeDouglas，inagood—humoredway，withoutcallinganybodyaliar，cantellwhatthereasonwas。

WhentheJudgespokeatClinton，hecameverynearmakingachargeoffalsehoodagainstme。Heused，asIfounditprintedinanewspaper，which，Iremember，wasverynearlyliketherealspeech，thefollowinglanguage：

"Ididnotanswerthecharge[ofconspiracy]before，forthereasonthatIdidnotsupposetherewasamaninAmericawithaheartsocorruptastobelievesuchachargecouldbetrue。I

havetoomuchrespectforMr。Lincolntosupposeheisseriousinmakingthecharge。"

Iconfessthisisratheracuriousview，thatoutofrespectformeheshouldconsiderIwasmakingwhatIdeemedratheragravechargeinfun。Iconfessitstrikesmeratherstrangely。ButI

letitpass。AstheJudgedidnotforamomentbelievethattherewasamaninAmericawhoseheartwasso"corrupt"astomakesuchacharge，andasheplacesmeamongthe"meninAmerica"whohaveheartsbaseenoughtomakesuchacharge，I

hopehewillexcusemeifIhuntoutanotherchargeverylikethis；andifitshouldturnoutthatinhuntingIshouldfindthatother，anditshouldturnouttobeJudgeDouglashimselfwhomadeit，Ihopehewillreconsiderthisquestionofthedeepcorruptionofhearthehasthoughtfittoascribetome。InJudgeDouglas’sspeechofMarch22，1858，whichIholdinmyhand，hesays：

"InthisconnectionthereisanothertopictowhichIdesiretoallude。Iseldomrefertothecourseofnewspapers，ornoticethearticleswhichtheypublishinregardtomyself；butthecourseoftheWashingtonUnionhasbeensoextraordinaryforthelasttwoorthreemonths，thatIthinkitwellenoughtomakesomeallusiontoit。IthasreadmeoutoftheDemocraticpartyeveryotherday，atleastfortwoorthreemonths，andkeepsreadingmeout，and，asifithadnotsucceeded，stillcontinuestoreadmeout，usingsuchtermsas’traitor，’’renegade，’

’deserter，’andotherkindandpoliteepithetsofthatnature。

Sir，IhavenovindicationtomakeofmyDemocracyagainsttheWashingtonUnion，oranyothernewspapers。Iamwillingtoallowmyhistoryandactionforthelasttwentyyearstospeakforthemselvesastomypoliticalprinciplesandmyfidelitytopoliticalobligations。TheWashingtonUnionhasapersonalgrievance。Whenitseditorwasnominatedforpublicprinter，I

declinedtovoteforhim，andstatedthatatsometimeImightgivemyreasonsfordoingso。SinceIdeclinedtogivethatvote，thisscurrilousabuse，thesevindictiveandconstantattackshavebeenrepeatedalmostdailyonme。WillanyfriendfromMichiganreadthearticletowhichIallude？"

Thisisapartofthespeech。YoumustexcusemefromreadingtheentirearticleoftheWashingtonUnion，asMr。StuartreaditforMr。Douglas。TheJudgegoesonandsumsup，asIthink，correctly：

"Mr。President，youherefindseveraldistinctpropositionsadvancedboldlybytheWashingtonUnioneditorially，andapparentlyauthoritatively；andanymanwhoquestionsanyofthemisdenouncedasanAbolitionist，aFree—soiler，afanatic。Thepropositionsare，first，thattheprimaryobjectofallgovernmentatitsoriginalinstitutionistheprotectionofpersonandproperty；second，thattheConstitutionoftheUnitedStatesdeclaresthatthecitizensofeachStateshallbeentitledtoalltheprivilegesandimmunitiesofcitizensintheseveralStates；andthat，therefore，thirdly，allStatelaws，whetherorganicorotherwise，whichprohibitthecitizensofoneStatefromsettlinginanotherwiththeirslaveproperty，andespeciallydeclaringitforfeited，aredirectviolationsoftheoriginalintentionofthegovernmentandConstitutionoftheUnitedStates；and，fourth，thattheemancipationoftheslavesoftheNorthernStateswasagrossoutrageoftherightsofproperty，inasmuchasitwasinvoluntarilydoneonthepartoftheowner。

"RememberthatthisarticlewaspublishedintheUniononthe17thofNovember，andonthe18thappearedthefirstarticlegivingtheadhesionoftheUnion，totheLecomptonConstitution。

Itwasinthesewords：

"KANSASANDHERCONSTITUTION。——Thevexedquestionissettled。

Theproblemissaved。Thedeadpointofdangerispassed。AllserioustroubletoKansasaffairsisoverandgone……"

Andacolumnnearlyofthesamesort。Then，whenyoucometolookintotheLecomptonConstitution，youfindthesamedoctrineincorporatedinitwhichwasputfortheditoriallyintheUnion。

Whatisit？

"ARTICLE7，SectionI。Therightofpropertyisbeforeandhigherthananyconstitutionalsanction；andtherightoftheownerofaslavetosuchslaveanditsincreaseisthesameandasinviolableastherightoftheownerofanypropertywhatever。"

TheninthescheduleisaprovisionthattheConstitutionmaybeamendedafter1864byatwo—thirdsvote：

"Butnoalterationshallbemadetoaffecttherightofpropertyintheownershipofslaves。"

"ItwillbeseenbytheseclausesintheLecomptonConstitutionthattheyareidenticalinspiritwiththeauthoritativearticleintheWashingtonUnionofthedayprevioustoitsindorsementofthisConstitution。"

Ipassoversomeportionsofthespeech，andIhopethatanyonewhofeelsinterestedinthismatterwillreadtheentiresectionofthespeech，andseewhetherIdotheJudgeinjustice。Heproceeds：

"WhenIsawthatarticleintheUnionofthe17thofNovember，followedbytheglorificationoftheLecomptonConstitutiononthe10thofNovember，andthisclauseintheConstitutionassertingthedoctrinethataStatehasnorighttoprohibitslaverywithinitslimits，IsawthattherewasafatalblowbeingstruckatthesovereigntyoftheStatesofthisUnion。"

Istopthequotationthere，againrequestingthatitmayallberead。IhavereadalloftheportionIdesiretocommentupon。

WhatisthischargethattheJudgethinksImusthaveaverycorrupthearttomake？ItwasapurposeonthepartofcertainhighfunctionariestomakeitimpossibleforthepeopleofoneStatetoprohibitthepeopleofanyotherStatefromenteringitwiththeir"property，"socalled，andmakingitaslaveState。

Inotherwords，itwasachargeimplyingadesigntomaketheinstitutionofslaverynational。AndnowIaskyourattentiontowhatJudgeDouglashashimselfdonehere。Iknowhemadethatpartofthespeechasareasonwhyhehadrefusedtovoteforacertainmanforpublicprinter；butwhenwegetatit，thechargeitselfistheveryoneImadeagainsthim，thathethinksIamsocorruptforuttering。Now，whomdoeshemakethatchargeagainst？Doeshemakeitagainstthatnewspapereditormerely？

No；hesaysitisidenticalinspiritwiththeLecomptonConstitution，andsotheframersofthatConstitutionarebroughtinwiththeeditorofthenewspaperinthat"fatalblowbeingstruck。"Hedidnotcallita"conspiracy。"Inhislanguage，itisa"fatalblowbeingstruck。"Andifthewordscarrythemeaningbetterwhenchangedfroma"conspiracy"intoa"fatalblowbeingstruck，"Iwillchangemyexpression，andcallit"fatalblowbeingstruck。"WeseethechargemadenotmerelyagainsttheeditoroftheUnion，butalltheframersoftheLecomptonConstitution；andnotonlyso，butthearticlewasanauthoritativearticle。Bywhoseauthority？IsthereanyquestionbuthemeansitwasbytheauthorityofthePresidentandhisCabinet，——theAdministration？

Isthereanysortofquestionbuthemeanstomakethatcharge？

ThentherearetheeditorsoftheUnion，theframersoftheLecomptonConstitution，thePresidentoftheUnitedStatesandhisCabinet，andallthesupportersoftheLecomptonConstitution，inCongressandoutofCongress，whoareallinvolvedinthis"fatalblowbeingstruck。"IcommendtoJudgeDouglas’sconsiderationthequestionofhowcorruptaman’sheartmustbetomakesuchacharge！

Now，myfriends，Ihavebutonebranchofthesubject，inthelittletimeIhaveleft，towhichtocallyourattention；andasIshallcometoacloseattheendofthatbranch，itisprobablethatIshallnotoccupyquiteallthetimeallottedtome。

AlthoughonthesequestionsIwouldliketotalktwiceaslongasIhave，Icouldnotenteruponanotherheadanddiscussitproperlywithoutrunningovermytime。IasktheattentionofthepeoplehereassembledandelsewheretothecoursethatJudgeDouglasispursuingeverydayasbearinguponthisquestionofmakingslaverynational。Notgoingbacktotherecords，buttakingthespeecheshemakes，thespeecheshemadeyesterdayanddaybefore，andmakesconstantlyalloverthecountry，Iaskyourattentiontothem。Inthefirstplace，whatisnecessarytomaketheinstitutionnational？Notwar。ThereisnodangerthatthepeopleofKentuckywillshouldertheirmuskets，and，withayoungniggerstuckoneverybayonet，marchintoIllinoisandforcethemuponus。Thereisnodangerofourgoingoverthereandmakingwaruponthem。Thenwhatisnecessaryforthenationalizationofslavery？ItissimplythenextDredScottdecision。ItismerelyfortheSupremeCourttodecidethatnoStateundertheConstitutioncanexcludeit，justastheyhavealreadydecidedthatundertheConstitutionneitherCongressnortheTerritorialLegislaturecandoit。Whenthatisdecidedandacquiescedin，thewholethingisdone。Thisbeingtrue，andthisbeingtheway，asIthink，thatslaveryistobemadenational，letusconsiderwhatJudgeDouglasisdoingeverydaytothatend。Inthefirstplace，letusseewhatinfluenceheisexertingonpublicsentiment。Inthisandlikecommunities，publicsentimentiseverything。Withpublicsentiment，nothingcanfail；withoutit，nothingcansucceed。Consequently，hewhomouldspublicsentimentgoesdeeperthanhewhoenactsstatutesorpronouncesdecisions。Hemakesstatutesanddecisionspossibleorimpossibletobeexecuted。Thismustbeborneinmind，asalsotheadditionalfactthatJudgeDouglasisamanofvastinfluence，sogreatthatitisenoughformanymentoprofesstobelieveanythingwhentheyoncefindoutJudgeDouglasprofessestobelieveit。Consideralsotheattitudeheoccupiesattheheadofalargeparty，——apartywhichheclaimshasamajorityofallthevotersinthecountry。ThismanstickstoadecisionwhichforbidsthepeopleofaTerritoryfromexcludingslavery，andhedoesso，notbecausehesaysitisrightinitself，——hedoesnotgiveanyopiniononthat，——butbecauseithasbeendecidedbythecourt；andbeingdecidedbythecourt，heis，andyouare，boundtotakeitinyourpoliticalactionaslaw，notthathejudgesatallofitsmerits，butbecauseadecisionofthecourtistohima"ThussaiththeLord。"Heplacesitonthatgroundalone；andyouwillbearinmindthatthuscommittinghimselfunreservedlytothisdecisioncommitshimtothenextonejustasfirmlyastothis。Hedidnotcommithimselfonaccountofthemeritordemeritofthedecision，butitisa"ThussaiththeLord。"Thenextdecision，asmuchasthis，willbea"ThussaiththeLord。"Thereisnothingthatcandivertorturnhimawayfromthisdecision。ItisnothingthatIpointouttohimthathisgreatprototype，GeneralJackson，didnotbelieveinthebindingforceofdecisions。ItisnothingtohimthatJeffersondidnotsobelieve。IhavesaidthatIhaveoftenheardhimapproveofJackson’scourseindisregardingthedecisionoftheSupremeCourtpronouncingaNationalBankconstitutional。HesaysIdidnothearhimsayso。Hedeniestheaccuracyofmyrecollection。IsayheoughttoknowbetterthanI，butIwillmakenoquestionaboutthisthing，thoughitstillseemstomethatIheardhimsayittwentytimes。Iwilltellhim，though，thathenowclaimstostandontheCincinnatiplatform，whichaffirmsthatCongresscannotcharteraNationalBank，intheteethofthatoldstandingdecisionthatCongresscancharterabank。AndIremindhimofanotherpieceofhistoryonthequestionofrespectforjudicialdecisions，anditisapieceofIllinoishistorybelongingtoatimewhenthelargepartytowhichJudgeDouglasbelongedweredispleasedwithadecisionoftheSupremeCourtofIllinois，becausetheyhaddecidedthataGovernorcouldnotremoveaSecretaryofState。YouwillfindthewholestoryinFord’sHistoryofIllinois，andIknowthatJudgeDouglaswillnotdenythathewastheninfavorofover—

slaughingthatdecisionbythemodeofaddingfivenewjudges，soastovotedownthefouroldones。Notonlyso，butitendedintheJudge’ssittingdownonthatverybenchasoneofthefivenewjudgestobreakdownthefouroldonesItwasinthiswaypreciselythathegothistitleofjudge。Now，whentheJudgetellsmethatmenappointedconditionallytositasmembersofacourtwillhavetobecatechizedbeforehanduponsomesubject，I

say，"Youknow，Judge；youhavetriedit。"Whenhesaysacourtofthiskindwilllosetheconfidenceofallmen，willbeprostitutedanddisgracedbysuchaproceeding，Isay，"Youknowbest，Judge；youhavebeenthroughthemill。"ButIcannotshakeJudgeDouglas’steethloosefromtheDredScottdecision。Likesomeobstinateanimal(Imeannodisrespect)thatwillhangonwhenhehasoncegothisteethfixed，youmaycutoffaleg，oryoumaytearawayanarm，stillhewillnotrelaxhishold。AndsoImaypointouttotheJudge，andsaythatheisbespatteredallover，fromthebeginningofhispoliticallifetothepresenttime，withattacksuponjudicialdecisions；Imaycutofflimbafterlimbofhispublicrecord，andstrivetowrenchhimfromasingledictumofthecourt，——yetIcannotdiverthimfromit。Hehangs，tothelast，totheDredScottdecision。Thesethingsshowthereisapurposestrongasdeathandeternityforwhichheadherestothisdecision，andforwhichhewilladheretoallotherdecisionsofthesamecourt。

[AHIBERNIAN："GiveussomethingbesidesDredScott。"]

Yes；nodoubtyouwanttohearsomethingthatdon’thurt。Now，havingspokenoftheDredScottdecision，onemoreword，andIamdone。HenryClay，mybeau—idealofastatesman，themanforwhomIfoughtallmyhumblelife，HenryClayoncesaidofaclassofmenwhowouldrepressalltendenciestolibertyandultimateemancipationthattheymust，iftheywoulddothis，gobacktotheeraofourIndependence，andmuzzlethecannonwhichthundersitsannualjoyousreturn；theymustblowoutthemorallightsaroundus；theymustpenetratethehumansoul，anderadicatetheretheloveofliberty；andthen，andnottillthen，couldtheyperpetuateslaveryinthiscountry！Tomythinking，JudgeDouglasis，byhisexampleandvastinfluence，doingthatverythinginthiscommunity，whenhesaysthatthenegrohasnothingintheDeclarationofIndependence。HenryClayplainlyunderstoodthecontrary。JudgeDouglasisgoingbacktotheeraofourRevolution，and，totheextentofhisability，muzzlingthecannonwhichthundersitsannualjoyousreturn。Whenheinvitesanypeople，willingtohaveslavery，toestablishit，heisblowingoutthemorallightsaroundus。Whenhesayshe"caresnotwhetherslaveryisvoteddownorup，"——thatitisasacredrightofself—government，——heis，inmyjudgment，penetratingthehumansoulanderadicatingthelightofreasonandtheloveoflibertyinthisAmericanpeople。AndnowIwillonlysaythatwhen，byallthesemeansandappliances，JudgeDouglasshallsucceedinbringingpublicsentimenttoanexactaccordancewithhisownviews；whenthesevastassemblagesshallechobackallthesesentiments；whentheyshallcometorepeathisviewsandtoavowhisprinciples，andtosayallthathesaysonthesemightyquestions，——thenitneedsonlytheformalityofthesecondDredScottdecision，whichheindorsesinadvance，tomakeslaveryalikelawfulinalltheStates，oldaswellasnew，NorthaswellasSouth。

Myfriends，thatendsthechapter。TheJudgecantakehishalf—hour。

SECONDJOINTDEBATE，ATFREEPORT，AUGUST27，1858

LADIESANDGENTLEMEN：——OnSaturdaylast，JudgeDouglasandmyselffirstmetinpublicdiscussion。Hespokeonehour，Ianhourandahalf，andherepliedforhalfanhour。Theorderisnowreversed。Iamtospeakanhour，heanhourandahalf，andthenIamtoreplyforhalfanhour。Iproposetodevotemyselfduringthefirsthourtothescopeofwhatwasbroughtwithintherangeofhishalf—hourspeechatOttawa。Ofcoursetherewasbroughtwithinthescopeinthathalf—hour’sspeechsomethingofhisownopeningspeech。InthecourseofthatopeningargumentJudgeDouglasproposedtomesevendistinctinterrogatories。Inmyspeechofanhourandahalf，Iattendedtosomeotherpartsofhisspeech，andincidentally，asIthought，intimatedtohimthatIwouldanswertherestofhisinterrogatoriesonconditiononlythatheshouldagreetoanswerasmanyforme。Hemadenointimationatthetimeoftheproposition，nordidheinhisreplyalludeatalltothatsuggestionofmine。IdohimnoinjusticeinsayingthatheoccupiedatleasthalfofhisreplyindealingwithmeasthoughIhadrefusedtoanswerhisinterrogatories。InowproposethatIwillansweranyoftheinterrogatories，uponconditionthathewillanswerquestionsfrommenotexceedingthesamenumber。Igivehimanopportunitytorespond。

TheJudgeremainssilent。InowsaythatIwillanswerhisinterrogatories，whetherheanswersmineornot；andthatafterI

havedoneso，Ishallpropoundminetohim。

Ihavesupposedmyself，sincetheorganizationoftheRepublicanpartyatBloomington，inMay，1856，boundasapartymanbytheplatformsoftheparty，thenandsince。IfinanyinterrogatorieswhichI

shallanswerIgobeyondthescopeofwhatiswithintheseplatforms，itwillbeperceivedthatnooneisresponsiblebutmyself。

Havingsaidthusmuch，IwilltakeuptheJudge’sinterrogatoriesasIfindthemprintedintheChicagoTimes，andanswerthemseriatim。Inorderthattheremaybenomistakeaboutit，Ihavecopiedtheinterrogatoriesinwriting，andalsomyanswerstothem。Thefirstoneoftheseinterrogatoriesisinthesewords：

Question1。——"IdesiretoknowwhetherLincolnto—daystands，ashedidin1854，infavoroftheunconditionalrepealoftheFugitiveSlavelaw？"Answer：——Idonotnow，noreverdid，standinfavoroftheunconditionalrepealoftheFugitiveSlavelaw。

Q。2。——"Idesirehimtoanswerwhetherhestandspledgedto—day，ashedidin1854，againsttheadmissionofanymoreslaveStatesintotheUnion，evenifthepeoplewantthem？"Answer：——Idonotnow，noreverdid，standpledgedagainsttheadmissionofanymoreslaveStatesintotheUnion。

Q。3。——"IwanttoknowwhetherhestandspledgedagainsttheadmissionofanewStateintotheUnionwithsuchaconstitutionasthepeopleofthatStatemayseefittomake？"Answer：——IdonotstandpledgedagainsttheadmissionofanewStateintotheUnion，withsuchaconstitutionasthepeopleofthatStatemayseefittomake。

Q。4。——"Iwanttoknowwhetherhestandsto—daypledgedtotheabolitionofslaveryintheDistrictofColumbia？"Answer：——Idonotstandto—daypledgedtotheabolitionofslaveryintheDistrictofColumbia。

Q。5。——"Idesirehimtoanswerwhetherhestandspledgedtotheprohibitionoftheslave—tradebetweenthedifferentStates？"

Answer：——Idonotstandpledgedtotheprohibitionoftheslave—tradebetweenthedifferentStates。

Q。6。——IdesiretoknowwhetherhestandspledgedtoprohibitslaveryinalltheTerritoriesoftheUnitedStates，northaswellassouthoftheMissouriCompromiseline？"Answer：——Iamimpliedly，ifnotexpressly，pledgedtoabeliefintherightanddutyofCongresstoprohibitslaveryinalltheUnitedStates’Territories。

Q。7。——"Idesirehimtoanswerwhetherheisopposedtotheacquisitionofanynewterritoryunlessslaveryisfirstprohibitedtherein？"Answer：——Iamnotgenerallyopposedtohonestacquisitionofterritory；and，inanygivencase，Iwouldorwouldnotopposesuchacquisition，accordinglyasImightthinksuchacquisitionwouldorwouldnotaggravatetheslaveryquestionamongourselves。

Now，myfriends，itwillbeperceived，uponanexaminationofthesequestionsandanswers，thatsofarIhaveonlyansweredthatIwasnotpledgedtothis，that，ortheother。TheJudgehasnotframedhisinterrogatoriestoaskmeanythingmorethanthis，andIhaveansweredinstrictaccordancewiththeinterrogatories，andhaveansweredtruly，thatIamnotpledgedatalluponanyofthepointstowhichIhaveanswered。ButIamnotdisposedtohangupontheexactformofhisinterrogatory。I

amratherdisposedtotakeupatleastsomeofthesequestions，andstatewhatIreallythinkuponthem。

Astothefirstone，inregardtotheFugitiveSlavelaw，Ihaveneverhesitatedtosay，andIdonotnowhesitatetosay，thatI

think，undertheConstitutionoftheUnitedStates，thepeopleoftheSouthernStatesareentitledtoaCongressionalFugitiveSlavelaw。Havingsaidthat，IhavehadnothingtosayinregardtotheexistingFugitiveSlavelaw，furtherthanthatIthinkitshouldhavebeenframedsoastobefreefromsomeoftheobjectionsthatpertaintoit，withoutlesseningitsefficiency。

Andinasmuchaswearenotnowinanagitationinregardtoanalterationormodificationofthatlaw，Iwouldnotbethemantointroduceitasanewsubjectofagitationuponthegeneralquestionofslavery。

Inregardtotheotherquestion，ofwhetherIampledgedtotheadmissionofanymoreslaveStatesintotheUnion，IstatetoyouveryfranklythatIwouldbeexceedinglysorryevertobeputinapositionofhavingtopassuponthatquestion。IshouldbeexceedinglygladtoknowthattherewouldneverbeanotherslaveStateadmittedintotheUnion；butImustaddthatifslaveryshallbekeptoutoftheTerritoriesduringtheterritorialexistenceofanyonegivenTerritory，andthenthepeopleshall，havingafairchanceandaclearfield，whentheycometoadopttheconstitution，dosuchanextraordinarythingastoadoptaslaveconstitution，uninfluencedbytheactualpresenceoftheinstitutionamongthem，Iseenoalternative，ifweownthecountry，buttoadmitthemintotheUnion。

Thethirdinterrogatoryisansweredbytheanswertothesecond，itbeing，asIconceive，thesameasthesecond。

ThefourthoneisinregardtotheabolitionofslaveryintheDistrictofColumbia。Inrelationtothat，Ihavemymindverydistinctlymadeup。IshouldbeexceedinglygladtoseeslaveryabolishedintheDistrictofColumbia。IbelievethatCongresspossessestheconstitutionalpowertoabolishit。YetasamemberofCongress，Ishouldnot，withmypresentviews，beinfavorofendeavoringtoabolishslaveryintheDistrictofColumbia，unlessitwouldbeupontheseconditions：First，thattheabolitionshouldbegradual；second，thatitshouldbeonavoteofthemajorityofqualifiedvotersintheDistrict；andthird，thatcompensationshouldbemadetounwillingowners。

Withthesethreeconditions，IconfessIwouldbeexceedinglygladtoseeCongressabolishslaveryintheDistrictofColumbia，and，inthelanguageofHenryClay，"sweepfromourcapitalthatfoulblotuponournation。"

Inregardtothefifthinterrogatory，Imustsayherethat，astothequestionoftheabolitionoftheslave—tradebetweenthedifferentStates，Icantrulyanswer，asIhave，thatIampledgedtonothingaboutit。ItisasubjecttowhichIhavenotgiventhatmatureconsiderationthatwouldmakemefeelauthorizedtostateapositionsoastoholdmyselfentirelyboundbyit。Inotherwords，thatquestionhasneverbeenprominentlyenoughbeforemetoinducemetoinvestigatewhetherwereallyhavetheconstitutionalpowertodoit。IcouldinvestigateitifIhadsufficienttimetobringmyselftoaconclusionuponthatsubject；butIhavenotdoneso，andIsaysofranklytoyouhere，andtoJudgeDouglas。Imustsay，however，thatifIshouldbeofopinionthatCongressdoespossesstheconstitutionalpowertoabolishtheslave—tradeamongthedifferentStates，Ishouldstillnotbeinfavoroftheexerciseofthatpower，unlessuponsomeconservativeprincipleasIconceiveit，akintowhatIhavesaidinrelationtotheabolitionofslaveryintheDistrictofColumbia。

MyanswerastowhetherIdesirethatslaveryshouldbeprohibitedinalltheTerritoriesoftheUnitedStatesisfullandexplicitwithinitself，andcannotbemadeclearerbyanycommentsofmine。SoIsupposeinregardtothequestionwhetherIamopposedtotheacquisitionofanymoreterritoryunlessslaveryisfirstprohibitedtherein，myanswerissuchthatI

couldaddnothingbywayofillustration，ormakingmyselfbetterunderstood，thantheanswerwhichIhaveplacedinwriting。

NowinallthistheJudgehasme，andhehasmeontherecord。I

supposehehadflatteredhimselfthatIwasreallyentertainingonesetofopinionsforoneplace，andanothersetforanotherplace；thatIwasafraidtosayatoneplacewhatIutteredatanother。WhatIamsayinghereIsupposeIsaytoavastaudienceasstronglytendingtoAbolitionismasanyaudienceintheStateofIllinois，andIbelieveIamsayingthatwhich，ifitwouldbeoffensivetoanypersonsandrenderthemenemiestomyself，wouldbeoffensivetopersonsinthisaudience。

InowproceedtopropoundtotheJudgetheinterrogatories，sofarasIhaveframedthem。IwillbringforwardanewinstallmentwhenIgetthemready。Iwillbringthemforwardnowonlyreachingtonumberfour。

Thefirstoneis：

Question1。——IfthepeopleofKansasshall，bymeansentirelyunobjectionableinallotherrespects，adoptaStateconstitution，andaskadmissionintotheUnionunderit，beforetheyhavetherequisitenumberofinhabitantsaccordingtotheEnglishbill，——someninety—threethousand，——willyouvotetoadmitthem？

Q。2。——CanthepeopleofaUnitedStatesTerritory，inanylawfulway，againstthewishofanycitizenoftheUnitedStates，excludeslaveryfromitslimitspriortotheformationofaStateconstitution？

Q。3。IftheSupremeCourtoftheUnitedStatesshalldecidethatStatescannotexcludeslaveryfromtheirlimits，areyouinfavorofacquiescingin，adopting，andfollowingsuchdecisionasaruleofpoliticalaction？

Q。4。Areyouinfavorofacquiringadditionalterritory，indisregardofhowsuchacquisitionmayaffectthenationontheslaveryquestion？

AsintroductorytotheseinterrogatorieswhichJudgeDouglaspropoundedtomeatOttawa，hereadasetofresolutionswhichhesaidJudgeTrumbullandmyselfhadparticipatedinadopting，inthefirstRepublicanStateConvention，heldatSpringfieldinOctober，1854。HeinsistedthatIandJudgeTrumbull，andperhapstheentireRepublicanparty，wereresponsibleforthedoctrinescontainedinthesetofresolutionswhichheread，andIunderstandthatitwasfromthatsetofresolutionsthathededucedtheinterrogatorieswhichhepropoundedtome，usingtheseresolutionsasasortofauthorityforpropoundingthosequestionstome。Now，Isayhereto—daythatIdonotanswerhisinterrogatoriesbecauseoftheirspringingatallfromthatsetofresolutionswhichheread。IansweredthembecauseJudgeDouglasthoughtfittoaskthem。Idonotnow，noreverdid，recognizeanyresponsibilityuponmyselfinthatsetofresolutions。WhenIrepliedtohimonthatoccasion，IassuredhimthatIneverhadanythingtodowiththem。IrepeatheretotodaythatIneverinanypossibleformhadanythingtodowiththatsetofresolutionsItturnsout，Ibelieve，thatthoseresolutionswereneverpassedinanyconventionheldinSpringfield。

ItturnsoutthattheywereneverpassedatanyconventionoranypublicmeetingthatIhadanypartin。Ibelieveitturnsout，inadditiontoallthis，thattherewasnot，inthefallof1854，anyconventionholdingasessioninSpringfield，callingitselfaRepublicanStateConvention；yetitistruetherewasaconvention，orassemblageofmencallingthemselvesaconvention，atSpringfield，thatdidpasssomeresolutions。ButsolittledidIreallyknowoftheproceedingsofthatconvention，orwhatsetofresolutionstheyhadpassed，thoughhavingageneralknowledgethattherehadbeensuchanassemblageofmenthere，thatwhenJudgeDouglasreadtheresolutions，Ireallydidnotknowbuttheyhadbeentheresolutionspassedthenandthere。I

didnotquestionthattheyweretheresolutionsadopted。ForI

couldnotbringmyselftosupposethatJudgeDouglascouldsaywhathediduponthissubjectwithoutknowingthatitwastrue。

Icontentedmyself，onthatoccasion，withdenying，asItrulycould，allconnectionwiththem，notdenyingoraffirmingwhethertheywerepassedatSpringfield。Now，itturnsoutthathehadgotholdofsomeresolutionspassedatsomeconventionorpublicmeetinginKaneCounty。Iwishtosayhere，thatIdon’tconceivethatinanyfairandjustmindthisdiscoveryrelievesmeatall。IhadjustasmuchtodowiththeconventioninKaneCountyasthatatSpringfield。IamasmuchresponsiblefortheresolutionsatKaneCountyasthoseatSpringfield，——theamountoftheresponsibilitybeingexactlynothingineithercase；nomorethantherewouldbeinregardtoasetofresolutionspassedinthemoon。

Ialludetothisextraordinarymatterinthiscanvassforsomefurtherpurposethananythingyetadvanced。JudgeDouglasdidnotmakehisstatementuponthatoccasionasmattersthathebelievedtobetrue，buthestatedthemroundlyasbeingtrue，insuchformastopledgehisveracityfortheirtruth。Whenthewholematterturnsoutasitdoes，andwhenweconsiderwhoJudgeDouglasis，thatheisadistinguishedSenatoroftheUnitedStates；thathehasservednearlytwelveyearsassuch；thathischaracterisnotatalllimitedasanordinarySenatoroftheUnitedStates，butthathisnamehasbecomeofworld—widerenown，——itismostextraordinarythatheshouldsofarforgetallthesuggestionsofjusticetoanadversary，orofprudencetohimself，astoventureupontheassertionofthatwhichtheslightestinvestigationwouldhaveshownhimtobewhollyfalse。

Icanonlyaccountforhishavingdonesouponthesuppositionthatthatevilgeniuswhichhasattendedhimthroughhislife，givingtohimanapparentastonishingprosperity，suchastoleadverymanygoodmentodoubttherebeinganyadvantageinvirtueovervice，——IsayIcanonlyaccountforitonthesuppositionthatthatevilgeniushasaslastmadeupitsmindtoforsakehim。

AndImayaddthatanotherextraordinaryfeatureoftheJudge’sconductinthiscanvass——mademoreextraordinarybythisincident——is，thatheisinthehabit，inalmostallthespeecheshemakes，ofchargingfalsehooduponhisadversaries，myselfandothers。InowaskwhetherheisabletofindinanythingthatJudgeTrumbull，forinstance，hassaid，orinanythingthatI

havesaid，ajustificationatallcomparedwithwhatwehave，inthisinstance，forthatsortofvulgarity。

Ihavebeeninthehabitofchargingasamatterofbeliefonmypartthat，intheintroductionoftheNebraskaBillintoCongress，therewasaconspiracytomakeslaveryperpetualandnational。Ihavearrangedfromtimetotimetheevidencewhichestablishesandprovesthetruthofthischarge。IrecurredtothischargeatOttawa。Ishallnotnowhavetimetodwelluponitatverygreatlength；butinasmuchasJudgeDouglas，inhisreplyofhalfanhour，madesomepointsuponmeinrelationtoit，Iproposenoticingafewofthem。

TheJudgeinsiststhat，inthefirstspeechImade，inwhichI

verydistinctlymadethatcharge，hethoughtforagoodwhileI

wasinfun！thatIwasplayful；thatIwasnotsincereaboutit；

andthatheonlygrewangryandsomewhatexcitedwhenhefoundthatIinsisteduponitasamatterofearnestness。HesayshecharacterizeditasafalsehoodsofarasIimplicatedhismoralcharacterinthattransaction。Well，Ididnotknow，tillhepresentedthatview，thatIhadimplicatedhismoralcharacter。

Heisverymuchinthehabit，whenhearguesmeupintoapositionIneverthoughtofoccupying，ofverycosilysayinghehasnodoubtLincolnis"conscientious"insayingso。HeshouldrememberthatIdidnotknowbutwhathewasALTOGETHER

"CONSCIENTIOUS"inthatmatter。Icanconceiveitpossibleformentoconspiretodoagoodthing，andIreallyfindnothinginJudgeDouglas’scourseofargumentsthatiscontrarytoorinconsistentwithhisbeliefofaconspiracytonationalizeandspreadslaveryasbeingagoodandblessedthing；andsoIhopehewillunderstandthatIdonotatallquestionbutthatinallthismatterheisentirely"conscientious。"

ButtodrawyourattentiontooneofthepointsImadeinthiscase，beginningatthebeginning：WhentheNebraskaBillwasintroduced，orashorttimeafterward，byanamendment，I

believe，itwasprovidedthatitmustbeconsidered"thetrueintentandmeaningofthisActnottolegislateslaveryintoanyStateorTerritory，ortoexcludeittherefrom，buttoleavethepeoplethereofperfectlyfreetoformandregulatetheirowndomesticinstitutionsintheirownway，subjectonlytotheConstitutionoftheUnitedStates。"IhavecalledhisattentiontothefactthatwhenheandsomeothersbeganarguingthattheyweregivinganincreaseddegreeoflibertytothepeopleintheTerritoriesoverandabovewhattheyformerlyhadonthequestionofslavery，aquestionwasraisedwhetherthelawwasenactedtogivesuchunconditionallibertytothepeople；andtotestthesincerityofthismodeofargument，Mr。Chase，ofOhio，introducedanamendment，inwhichhemadethelaw——iftheamendmentwereadopted——expresslydeclarethatthepeopleoftheTerritoryshouldhavethepowertoexcludeslaveryiftheysawfit。IhaveaskedattentionalsotothefactthatJudgeDouglasandthosewhoactedwithhimvotedthatamendmentdown，notwithstandingitexpressedexactlythethingtheysaidwasthetrueintentandmeaningofthelaw。IhavecalledattentiontothefactthatinsubsequenttimesadecisionoftheSupremeCourthasbeenmade，inwhichithasbeendeclaredthataTerritorialLegislaturehasnoconstitutionalrighttoexcludeslavery。AndIhavearguedandsaidthatformenwhodid，intendthatthepeopleoftheTerritoryshouldhavetherighttoexcludeslaveryabsolutelyandunconditionally，thevotingdownofChase’samendmentiswhollyinexplicable。Itisapuzzle，ariddle。ButIhavesaid，thatwithmenwhodidlookforwardtosuchadecision，orwhohaditincontemplationthatsuchadecisionoftheSupremeCourtwouldormightbemade，thevotingdownofthatamendmentwouldbeperfectlyrationalandintelligible。ItwouldkeepCongressfromcomingincollisionwiththedecisionwhenitwasmade。Anybodycanconceivethatiftherewasanintentionorexpectationthatsuchadecisionwastofollow，itwouldnotbeaverydesirablepartyattitudetogetintofortheSupremeCourt——

allornearlyallitsmembersbelongingtothesameparty——todecideoneway，whenthepartyinCongresshaddecidedtheotherway。Henceitwouldbeveryrationalformenexpectingsuchadecisiontokeepthenicheinthatlawclearforit。Afterpointingthisout，ItellJudgeDouglasthatitlookstomeasthoughherewasthereasonwhyChase’samendmentwasvoteddown。

Itellhimthat，ashedidit，andknowswhyhedidit，ifitwasdoneforareasondifferentfromthis，heknowswhatthatreasonwasandcantelluswhatitwas。Itellhim，also，itwillbevastlymoresatisfactorytothecountryforhimtogivesomeotherplausible，intelligiblereasonwhyitwasvoteddownthantostanduponhisdignityandcallpeopleliars。Well，onSaturdayhedidmakehisanswer；andwhatdoyouthinkitwas？

HesaysifIhadonlytakenuponmyselftotellthewholetruthaboutthatamendmentofChase’s，noexplanationwouldhavebeennecessaryonhispartorwordstothateffect。Now，IsayherethatIamquiteunconsciousofhavingsuppressedanythingmaterialtothecase，andIamveryfranktoadmitifthereisanysoundreasonotherthanthatwhichappearedtomematerial，itisquitefairforhimtopresentit。Whatreasondoeshepropose？ThatwhenChasecameforwardwithhisamendmentexpresslyauthorizingthepeopletoexcludeslaveryfromthelimitsofeveryTerritory，GeneralCassproposedtoChase，ifhe(Chase)wouldaddtohisamendmentthatthepeopleshouldhavethepowertointroduceorexclude，theywouldletitgo。Thisissubstantiallyallofhisreply。AndbecauseChasewouldnotdothat，theyvotedhisamendmentdown。Well，itturnsout，I

believe，uponexamination，thatGeneralCasstooksomepartinthelittlerunningdebateuponthatamendment，andthenranawayanddidnotvoteonitatall。Isnotthatthefact？Soconfident，asIthink，wasGeneralCassthattherewasasnakesomewhereabout，hechosetorunawayfromthewholething。ThisisaninferenceIdrawfromthefactthat，thoughhetookpartinthedebate，hisnamedoesnotappearintheayesandnoes。ButdoesJudgeDouglas’sreplyamounttoasatisfactoryanswer？

[Criesof"Yes，"Yes，"and"No，""No。"]

Thereissomelittledifferenceofopinionhere。ButIaskattentiontoafewmoreviewsbearingonthequestionofwhetheritamountstoasatisfactoryanswer。Themenwhoweredeterminedthatthatamendmentshouldnotgetintothebill，andspoiltheplacewheretheDredScottdecisionwastocomein，soughtanexcusetogetridofitsomewhere。Oneoftheseways——oneoftheseexcuses——wastoaskChasetoaddtohisproposedamendmentaprovisionthatthepeoplemightintroduceslaveryiftheywantedto。TheyverywellknewChasewoulddonosuchthing，thatMr。Chasewasoneofthemendifferingfromthemonthebroadprincipleofhisinsistingthatfreedomwasbetterthanslavery，——amanwhowouldnotconsenttoenactalaw，pennedwithhisownhand，bywhichhewasmadetorecognizeslaveryontheonehand，andlibertyontheother，aspreciselyequal；andwhentheyinsistedonhisdoingthis，theyverywellknewtheyinsistedonthatwhichhewouldnotforamomentthinkofdoing，andthattheywereonlybluffinghim。Ibelieve(Ihavenot，sincehemadehisanswer，hadachancetoexaminethejournalsorCongressionalGlobeandthereforespeakfrommemory)——Ibelievethestateofthebillatthattime，accordingtoparliamentaryrules，wassuchthatnomembercouldproposeanadditionalamendmenttoChase’samendment。Iratherthinkthisisthetruth，——theJudgeshakeshishead。Verywell。Iwouldliketoknow，then，iftheywantedChase’samendmentfixedover，whysomebodyelsecouldnothaveofferedtodoit？Iftheywanteditamended，whydidtheynotoffertheamendment？Whydidtheynotputitinthemselves？Buttoputitontheotherground：

supposethattherewassuchanamendmentoffered，andChase’swasanamendmenttoanamendment；untiloneisdisposedofbyparliamentarylaw，youcannotpileanotheron。ThenallthesegentlemenhadtodowastovoteChase’son，andthen，intheamendedforminwhichthewholestood，addtheirownamendmenttoit，iftheywantedtoputitinthatshape。Thiswasalltheywereobligedtodo，andtheayesandnoesshowthattherewerethirty—sixwhovoteditdown，againsttenwhovotedinfavorofit。Thethirty—sixheldentireswayandcontrol。Theycouldinsomeformorotherhaveputthatbillintheexactshapetheywanted。Iftherewasarulepreventingtheiramendingitatthetime，theycouldpassthat，andthen，Chase’samendmentbeingmerged，putitintheshapetheywanted。Theydidnotchoosetodoso，buttheywentintoaquibblewithChasetogethimtoaddwhattheyknewhewouldnotadd，andbecausehewouldnot，theystandupontheflimsypretextforvotingdownwhattheyarguedwasthemeaningandintentoftheirownbill。TheyleftroomtherebyforthisDredScottdecision，whichgoesveryfartomakeslaverynationalthroughouttheUnitedStates。

IpassoneortwopointsIhave，becausemytimewillverysoonexpire；butImustbeallowedtosaythatJudgeDouglasrecursagain，ashedidupononeortwootheroccasions，totheenormityofLincoln，aninsignificantindividuallikeLincoln，——uponhisipsedixitchargingaconspiracyuponalargenumberofmembersofCongress，theSupremeCourt，andtwoPresidents，tonationalizeslavery。Iwanttosaythat，inthefirstplace，I

havemadenochargeofthissortuponmyipsedixit。Ihaveonlyarrayedtheevidencetendingtoproveit，andpresentedittotheunderstandingofothers，sayingwhatIthinkitproves，butgivingyouthemeansofjudgingwhetheritprovesitornot。

ThisispreciselywhatIhavedone。Ihavenotplacedituponmyipsedixitatall。Onthisoccasion，IwishtorecallhisattentiontoapieceofevidencewhichIbroughtforwardatOttawaonSaturday，showingthathehadmadesubstantiallythesamechargeagainstsubstantiallythesamepersons，excludinghisdearselffromthecategory。IaskhimtogivesomeattentiontotheevidencewhichIbroughtforwardthathehimselfhaddiscovereda"fatalblowbeingstruck"againsttherightofthepeopletoexcludeslaveryfromtheirlimits，whichfatalblowheassumedasinevidenceinanarticleintheWashingtonUnion，published"byauthority。"Iaskbywhoseauthority？HediscoversasimilaroridenticalprovisionintheLecomptonConstitution。Madebywhom？TheframersofthatConstitution。

Advocatedbywhom？Byallthemembersofthepartyinthenation，whoadvocatedtheintroductionofKansasintotheUnionundertheLecomptonConstitution。Ihaveaskedhisattentiontotheevidencethathearrayedtoprovethatsuchafatalblowwasbeingstruck，andtothefactswhichhebroughtforwardinsupportofthatcharge，——beingidenticalwiththeonewhichhethinkssovillainousinme。Hepointedit，notatanewspapereditormerely，butatthePresidentandhisCabinetandthemembersofCongressadvocatingtheLecomptonConstitutionandthoseframingthatinstrument。Imustagainbepermittedtoremindhimthatalthoughmyipsedixitmaynotbeasgreatashis，yetitsomewhatreducestheforceofhiscallingmyattentiontotheenormityofmymakingalikechargeagainsthim。

Goon，JudgeDouglas。

Mr。LINCOLN’SREJOINDER。

MYFRIENDS：——ItwillreadilyoccurtoyouthatIcannot，inhalfanhour，noticeallthethingsthatsoableamanasJudgeDouglascansayinanhourandahalf；andIhope，therefore，iftherebeanythingthathehassaiduponwhichyouwouldliketohearsomethingfromme，butwhichIomittocommentupon，youwillbearinmindthatitwouldbeexpectinganimpossibilityformetogooverhiswholeground。Icanbuttakeupsomeofthepointsthathehasdweltupon，andemploymyhalf—hourspeciallyonthem。

ThefirstthingIhavetosaytoyouisawordinregardtoJudgeDouglas’sdeclarationaboutthe"vulgarityandblackguardism"intheaudience，thatnosuchthing，ashesays，wasshownbyanyDemocratwhileIwasspeaking。Now，Ionlywish，bywayofreplyonthissubject，tosaythatwhileIwasspeaking，Iusedno"vulgarityorblackguardism"towardanyDemocrat。

Now，myfriends，IcometoallthislongportionoftheJudge’sspeech，——perhapshalfofit，——whichhehasdevotedtothevariousresolutionsandplatformsthathavebeenadoptedinthedifferentcountiesinthedifferentCongressionaldistricts，andintheIllinoislegislature，whichhesupposesareatvariancewiththepositionsIhaveassumedbeforeyouto—day。ItistruethatmanyoftheseresolutionsareatvariancewiththepositionsIhavehereassumed。AllIhavetoaskisthatwetalkreasonablyandrationallyaboutit。Ihappentoknow，theJudge’sopiniontothecontrarynotwithstanding，thatIhavenevertriedtoconcealmyopinions，nortriedtodeceiveanyoneinreferencetothem。

HemaygoandexamineallthememberswhovotedformeforUnitedStatesSenatorin1855，aftertheelectionof1854。Theywerepledgedtocertainthingshereathome，andweredeterminedtohavepledgesfromme；andifhewillfindanyofthesepersonswhowilltellhimanythinginconsistentwithwhatIsaynow，I

willresign，orratherretirefromtherace，andgivehimnomoretrouble。Theplaintruthisthis：AttheintroductionoftheNebraskapolicy，webelievedtherewasanewerabeingintroducedinthehistoryoftheRepublic，whichtendedtothespreadandperpetuationofslavery。Butinouroppositiontothatmeasurewedidnotagreewithoneanotherineverything。ThepeopleinthenorthendoftheStatewereforstrongermeasuresofoppositionthanweofthecentralandsouthernportionsoftheState，butwewereallopposedtotheNebraskadoctrine。Wehadthatonefeelingandthatonesentimentincommon。Youatthenorthendmetinyourconventionsandpassedyourresolutions。

WeinthemiddleoftheStateandfarthersouthdidnotholdsuchconventionsandpassthesameresolutions，althoughwehadingeneralacommonviewandacommonsentiment。SothatthesemeetingswhichtheJudgehasalludedto，andtheresolutionshehasreadfrom，werelocal，anddidnotspreadoverthewholeState。Weatlastmettogetherin1886，fromallpartsoftheState，andweagreeduponacommonplatform。You，whoheldmoreextremenotions，eitheryieldedthosenotions，or，ifnotwhollyyieldingthem，agreedtoyieldthempractically，forthesakeofembodyingtheoppositiontothemeasureswhichtheoppositepartywerepushingforwardatthattime。Wemetyouthen，andiftherewasanythingyielded，itwasforpracticalpurposes。WeagreedthenuponaplatformforthepartythroughouttheentireStateofIllinois，andnowweareallbound，asaparty，tothatplatform。

AndIsayheretoyou，ifanyoneexpectsofme——incaseofmyelection——thatIwilldoanythingnotsignifiedbyourRepublicanplatformandmyanswershereto—day，Itellyouveryfranklythatpersonwillbedeceived。IdonotaskforthevoteofanyonewhosupposesthatIhavesecretpurposesorpledgesthatIdarenotspeakout。CannottheJudgebesatisfied？Ifhefears，intheunfortunatecaseofmyelection，thatmygoingtoWashingtonwillenablemetoadvocatesentimentscontrarytothosewhichI

expressedwhenyouvotedforandelectedme，Iassurehimthathisfearsarewhollyneedlessandgroundless。IstheJudgereallyafraidofanysuchthing？I’lltellyouwhatheisafraidof。Heisafraidwe’llallpulltogether。Thisiswhatalarmshimmorethananythingelse。Formypart，Idohopethatallofus，entertainingacommonsentimentinoppositiontowhatappearstousadesigntonationalizeandperpetuateslavery，willwaiveminordifferencesonquestionswhicheitherbelongtothedeadpastorthedistantfuture，andallpulltogetherinthisstruggle。Whatareyoursentiments？IfitbetruethatonthegroundwhichIoccupy——groundwhichIoccupyasfranklyandboldlyasJudgeDouglasdoeshis，——myviews，thoughpartlycoincidingwithyours，arenotasperfectlyinaccordancewithyourfeelingsashisare，Idosaytoyouinallcandor，goforhim，andnotforme。IhopetodealinallthingsfairlywithJudgeDouglas，andwiththepeopleoftheState，inthiscontest。

AndifIshouldneverbeelectedtoanyoffice，ItrustImaygodownwithnostainoffalsehooduponmyreputation，notwithstandingthehardopinionsJudgeDouglaschoosestoentertainofme。

TheJudgehasagainaddressedhimselftotheAbolitiontendenciesofaspeechofminemadeatSpringfieldinJunelast。IhavesooftentriedtoanswerwhatheisalwayssayingonthatmelancholythemethatIalmostturnwithdisgustfromthediscussion，——fromtherepetitionofananswertoit。Itrustthatnearlyallofthisintelligentaudiencehavereadthatspeech。Ifyouhave，I

mayventuretoleaveittoyoutoinspectitclosely，andseewhetheritcontainsanyofthose"bugaboos"whichfrightenJudgeDouglas。

TheJudgecomplainsthatIdidnotfullyanswerhisquestions。

IfIhavethesensetocomprehendandanswerthosequestions，I

havedonesofairly。IfitcanbepointedouttomehowIcanmorefullyandfairlyanswerhim，IaverIhavenotthesensetoseehowitistobedone。HesaysIdonotdeclareIwouldinanyeventvotefortheadmissionofaslaveStateintotheUnion。

IfIhavebeenfairlyreported，hewillseethatIdidgiveanexplicitanswertohisinterrogatories；IdidnotmerelysaythatIwoulddisliketobeputtothetest，butIsaidclearly，ifI

wereputtothetest，andaTerritoryfromwhichslaveryhadbeenexcludedshouldpresentherselfwithaStateconstitutionsanctioningslavery，——amostextraordinarything，andwhollyunlikelytohappen，——IdidnotseehowIcouldavoidvotingforheradmission。ButherefusestounderstandthatIsaidso，andhewantsthisaudiencetounderstandthatIdidnotsayso。Yetitwillbesoreportedintheprintedspeechthathecannothelpseeingit。

HesaysifIshouldvotefortheadmissionofaslaveStateI

wouldbevotingforadissolutionoftheUnion，becauseIholdthattheUnioncannotpermanentlyexisthalfslaveandhalffree。

IrepeatthatIdonotbelievethisgovernmentcanendurepermanentlyhalfslaveandhalffree；yetIdonotadmit，nordoesitatallfollow，thattheadmissionofasingleslaveStatewillpermanentlyfixthecharacterandestablishthisasauniversalslavenation。TheJudgeisveryhappyindeedatworkingupthesequibbles。Beforeleavingthesubjectofansweringquestions，Iaverasmyconfidentbelief，whenyoucometoseeourspeechesinprint，thatyouwillfindeveryquestionwhichhehasaskedmemorefairlyandboldlyandfullyansweredthanhehasansweredthosewhichIputtohim。Isnotthatso？

Thetwospeechesmaybeplacedsidebyside，andIwillventuretoleaveittoimpartialjudgeswhetherhisquestionshavenotbeenmoredirectlyandcircumstantiallyansweredthanmine。

JudgeDouglassayshemadeachargeupontheeditoroftheWashingtonUnion，alone，ofentertainingapurposetorobtheStatesoftheirpowertoexcludeslaveryfromtheirlimits。I

undertaketosay，andImakethedirectissue，thathedidnotmakehischargeagainsttheeditoroftheUnionalone。IwillundertaketoprovebytherecordherethathemadethatchargeagainstmoreandhigherdignitariesthantheeditoroftheWashingtonUnion。Iamquiteawarethathewasshirkinganddodgingaroundtheforminwhichheputit，butIcanmakeitmanifestthatheleveledhis"fatalblow"againstmorepersonsthanthisWashingtoneditor。WillhedodgeitnowbyallegingthatIamtryingtodefendMr。Buchananagainstthecharge？Notatall。AmInotmakingthesamechargemyself？Iamtryingtoshowthatyou，JudgeDouglas，areawitnessonmyside。IamnotdefendingBuchanan，andIwilltellJudgeDouglasthatinmyopinion，whenhemadethatcharge，hehadaneyefarthernorththanhehasto—day。HewasthenfightingagainstpeoplewhocalledhimaBlackRepublicanandanAbolitionist。Itismixedallthroughhisspeech，anditistolerablymanifestthathiseyewasagreatdealfarthernorththanitisto—day。TheJudgesaysthatthoughhemadethischarge，ToombsgotupanddeclaredtherewasnotamanintheUnitedStates，excepttheeditoroftheUnion，whowasinfavorofthedoctrinesputforthinthatarticle。AndthereuponIunderstandthattheJudgewithdrewthecharge。Althoughhehadtakenextractsfromthenewspaper，andthenfromtheLecomptonConstitution，toshowtheexistenceofaconspiracytobringabouta"fatalblow，"bywhichtheStatesweretobedeprivedoftherightofexcludingslavery，itallwenttopotassoonasToombsgotupandtoldhimitwasnottrue。ItremindsmeofthestorythatJohnPhoenix，theCaliforniarailroadsurveyor，tells。HesaystheystartedoutfromthePlazatotheMissionofDolores。Theyhadtwowaysofdeterminingdistances。Onewasbyachainandpinstakenovertheground。Theotherwasbya"go—it—ometer，"——aninventionofhisown，——athree—leggedinstrument，withwhichhecomputedaseriesoftrianglesbetweenthepoints。Atnightheturnedtothechain—mantoascertainwhatdistancetheyhadcome，andfoundthatbysomemistakehehadmerelydraggedthechainovertheground，withoutkeepinganyrecord。Bythe"go—it—ometer，"hefoundhehadmadetenmiles。Beingskepticalaboutthis，heaskedadraymanwhowaspassinghowfaritwastothePlaza。Thedraymanreplieditwasjusthalfamile；andthesurveyorputitdowninhisbook，——justasJudgeDouglassays，afterhehadmadehiscalculationsandcomputations，hetookToombs’sstatement。I

havenodoubtthatafterJudgeDouglashadmadehischarge，hewasaseasilysatisfiedaboutitstruthasthesurveyorwasofthedrayman’sstatementofthedistancetothePlaza。YetitisafactthatthemanwhoputforthallthatmatterwhichDouglasdeemeda"fatalblow"atStatesovereigntywaselectedbytheDemocratsaspublicprinter。

Now，gentlemen，youmaytakeJudgeDouglas’sspeechofMarch22，1858，beginningaboutthemiddleofpage21，andreadingtothebottomofpage24，andyouwillfindtheevidenceonwhichIsaythathedidnotmakehischargeagainsttheeditoroftheUnionalone。Icannotstoptoreadit，butIwillgiveittothereporters。JudgeDouglassaid：

"Mr。President，youherefindseveraldistinctpropositionsadvancedboldlybytheWashingtonUnioneditorially，andapparentlyauthoritatively，andeverymanwhoquestionsanyofthemisdenouncedasanAbolitionist，aFree—soiler，afanatic。

Thepropositionsare，first，thattheprimaryobjectofallgovernmentatitsoriginalinstitutionistheprotectionofpersonsandproperty；second，thattheConstitutionoftheUnitedStatesdeclaresthatthecitizensofeachStateshallbeentitledtoalltheprivilegesandimmunitiesofcitizensintheseveralStates；andthat，therefore，thirdly，allStatelaws，whetherorganicorotherwise，whichprohibitthecitizensofoneStatefromsettlinginanotherwiththeirslaveproperty，andespeciallydeclaringitforfeited，aredirectviolationsoftheoriginalintentionoftheGovernmentandConstitutionoftheUnitedStates；and，fourth，thattheemancipationoftheslavesoftheNorthernStateswasagrossoutrageontherightsofproperty，inasmuchasitwasinvoluntarilydoneonthepartoftheowner。

"RememberthatthisarticlewaspublishedintheUniononthe17thofNovember，andonthe18thappearedthefirstarticlegivingtheadhesionoftheUniontotheLecomptonConstitution。

Itwasinthesewords：

"’KANSASANDHERCONSTITUTION。——Thevexedquestionissettled。

Theproblemissolved。Thedeadpointofdangerispassed。AllserioustroubletoKansasaffairsisoverandgone……"

"Andacolumn，nearly，ofthesamesort。Then，whenyoucometolookintotheLecomptonConstitution，youfindthesamedoctrineincorporatedinitwhichwasputfortheditoriallyintheUnion。

Whatisit？

"’ARTICLE7，Sectioni。Therightofpropertyisbeforeandhigherthananyconstitutionalsanction；andtherightoftheownerofaslavetosuchslaveanditsincreaseisthesameandasinvariableastherightoftheownerofanypropertywhatever。’

"TheninthescheduleisaprovisionthattheConstitutionmaybeamendedafter1864byatwo—thirdsvote。

"’Butnoalterationshallbemadetoaffecttherightofpropertyintheownershipofslaves。’

"ItwillbeseenbytheseclausesintheLecomptonConstitutionthattheyareidenticalinspiritwiththisauthoritativearticleintheWashingtonUnionofthedayprevioustoitsindorsementofthisConstitution。

"WhenIsawthatarticleintheUnionofthe17thofNovember，followedbytheglorificationoftheLecomptonConstitutiononthe18thofNovember，andthisclauseintheConstitutionassertingthedoctrinethataStatehasnorighttoprohibitslaverywithinitslimits，IsawthattherewasafatalblowbeingstruckatthesovereigntyoftheStatesofthisUnion。"

Herehesays，"Mr。President，youherefindseveraldistinctpropositionsadvancedboldly，andapparentlyauthoritatively。"

Bywhoseauthority，JudgeDouglas？Again，hesaysinanotherplace，"ItwillbeseenbytheseclausesintheLecomptonConstitutionthattheyareidenticalinspiritwiththisauthoritativearticle。"Bywhoseauthority，——whodoyoumeantosayauthorizedthepublicationofthesearticles？HeknowsthattheWashingtonUnionisconsideredtheorganoftheAdministration。IdemandofJudgeDouglasbywhoseauthorityhemeanttosaythosearticleswerepublished，ifnotbytheauthorityofthePresidentoftheUnitedStatesandhisCabinet？