第20章

Andonefeaturetheywillerase，andanothertheywillputin，theyhavemadethewaysofmen，asfaraspossible，agreeabletothewaysofGod？

Indeed，hesaid，innowaycouldtheymakeafairerpicture。

Andnow，Isaid，arewebeginningtopersuadethosewhomyoudescribedasrushingatuswithmightandmain，thatthepainterofconstitutionsissuchanoneaswearepraising；atwhomtheyweresoveryindignantbecausetohishandswecommittedtheState；andaretheygrowingalittlecalmeratwhattheyhavejustheard？

Muchcalmer，ifthereisanysenseinthem。

Why，wherecantheystillfindanygroundforobjection？Willtheydoubtthatthephilosopherisaloveroftruthandbeing？

Theywouldnotbesounreasonable。

Orthathisnature，beingsuchaswehavedelineated，isakintothehighestgood？

Neithercantheydoubtthis。

Butagain，willtheytellusthatsuchanature，placedunderfavourablecircumstances，willnotbeperfectlygoodandwiseifanyeverwas？Orwilltheypreferthosewhomwehaverejected？

Surelynot。

Thenwilltheystillbeangryatoursaying，that，untilphilosophersbearrule，Statesandindividualswillhavenorestfromevil，norwillthisourimaginaryStateeverberealised？

Ithinkthattheywillbelessangry。

Shallweassumethattheyarenotonlylessangrybutquitegentle，andthattheyhavebeenconvertedandforveryshame，iffornootherreason，cannotrefusetocometoterms？

Byallmeans，hesaid。

Thenletussupposethatthereconciliationhasbeeneffected。

Willanyonedenytheotherpoint，thattheremaybesonsofkingsorprinceswhoarebynaturephilosophers？

Surelynoman，hesaid。

Andwhentheyhavecomeintobeingwillanyonesaythattheymustofnecessitybedestroyed；thattheycanhardlybesavedisnotdeniedevenbyus；butthatinthewholecourseofagesnosingleoneofthemcanescape——whowillventuretoaffirmthis？

Whoindeed！

But，saidI，oneisenough；lettherebeonemanwhohasacityobedienttohiswill，andhemightbringintoexistencetheidealpolityaboutwhichtheworldissoincredulous。

Yes，oneisenough。

Therulermayimposethelawsandinstitutionswhichwehavebeendescribing，andthecitizensmaypossiblybewillingtoobeythem？

Certainly。

Andthatothersshouldapproveofwhatweapprove，isnomiracleorimpossibility？

Ithinknot。

Butwehavesufficientlyshown，inwhathaspreceded，thatallthis，ifonlypossible，isassuredlyforthebest。

Wehave。

Andnowwesaynotonlythatourlaws，iftheycouldbeenacted，wouldbeforthebest，butalsothattheenactmentofthem，thoughdifficult，isnotimpossible。

Verygood。

Andsowithpainandtoilwehavereachedtheendofonesubject，butmoreremainstobediscussed；——howandbywhatstudiesandpursuitswillthesavioursoftheconstitutionbecreated，andatwhatagesaretheytoapplythemselvestotheirseveralstudies？

Certainly。

Iomittedthetroublesomebusinessofthepossessionofwomen，andtheprocreationofchildren，andtheappointmentoftherulers，becauseIknewthattheperfectStatewouldbeeyedwithjealousyandwasdifficultofattainment；butthatpieceofclevernesswasnotofmuchservicetome，forIhadtodiscussthemallthesame。Thewomenandchildrenarenowdisposedof，buttheotherquestionoftherulersmustbeinvestigatedfromtheverybeginning。Weweresaying，asyouwillremember，thattheyweretobeloversoftheircountry，triedbythetestofpleasuresandpains，andneitherinhardships，norindangers，noratanyothercriticalmomentweretolosetheirpatriotism——hewastoberejectedwhofailed，buthewhoalwayscameforthpure，likegoldtriedintherefiner’sfire，wastobemadearuler，andtoreceivehonoursandrewardsinlifeandafterdeath。Thiswasthesortofthingwhichwasbeingsaid，andthentheargumentturnedasideandveiledherface；notlikingtostirthequestionwhichhasnowarisen。

Iperfectlyremember，hesaid。

Yes，myfriend，Isaid，andIthenshrankfromhazardingtheboldword；butnowletmedaretosay——thattheperfectguardianmustbeaphilosopher。

Yes，hesaid，letthatbeaffirmed。

Anddonotsupposethattherewillbemanyofthem；forthegiftswhichweredeemedbyustobeessentialrarelygrowtogether；theyaremostlyfoundinshredsandpatches。

Whatdoyoumean？hesaid。

Youareaware，Ireplied，thatquickintelligence，memory，sagacity，cleverness，andsimilarqualities，donotoftengrowtogether，andthatpersonswhopossessthemandareatthesametimehigh—spiritedandmagnanimousarenotsoconstitutedbynatureastoliveorderlyandinapeacefulandsettledmanner；theyaredrivenanywaybytheirimpulses，andallsolidprinciplegoesoutofthem。

Verytrue，hesaid。

Ontheotherhand，thosesteadfastnatureswhichcanbetterbedependedupon，whichinabattleareimpregnabletofearandimmovable，areequallyimmovablewhenthereisanythingtobelearned；

theyarealwaysinatorpidstate，andareapttoyawnandgotosleepoveranyintellectualtoil。

Quitetrue。

Andyetweweresayingthatbothqualitieswerenecessaryinthosetowhomthehighereducationistobeimparted，andwhoaretoshareinanyofficeorcommand。

Certainly，hesaid。

Andwilltheybeaclasswhichisrarelyfound？

Yes，indeed。

Thentheaspirantmustnotonlybetestedinthoselaboursanddangersandpleasureswhichwementionedbefore，butthereisanotherkindofprobationwhichwedidnotmention——hemustbeexercisedalsoinmanykindsofknowledge，toseewhetherthesoulwillbeabletoendurethehighestofall，willfaintunderthem，asinanyotherstudiesandexercises。

Yes，hesaid，youarequiterightintestinghim。Butwhatdoyoumeanbythehighestofallknowledge？

Youmayremember，Isaid，thatwedividedthesoulintothreeparts；

anddistinguishedtheseveralnaturesofjustice，temperance，courage，andwisdom？

Indeed，hesaid，ifIhadforgotten，Ishouldnotdeservetohearmore。

Anddoyourememberthewordofcautionwhichprecededthediscussionofthem？

Towhatdoyourefer？

Weweresaying，ifIamnotmistaken，thathewhowantedtoseethemintheirperfectbeautymusttakealongerandmorecircuitousway，attheendofwhichtheywouldappear；butthatwecouldaddonapopularexpositionofthemonalevelwiththediscussionwhichhadpreceded。Andyourepliedthatsuchanexpositionwouldbeenoughforyou，andsotheenquirywascontinuedinwhattomeseemedtobeaveryinaccuratemanner；whetheryouweresatisfiedornot，itisforyoutosay。

Yes，hesaid，Ithoughtandtheothersthoughtthatyougaveusafairmeasureoftruth。

But，myfriend，Isaid，ameasureofsuchthingsWhichinanydegreefallsshortofthewholetruthisnotfairmeasure；fornothingimperfectisthemeasureofanything，althoughpersonsaretooapttobecontentedandthinkthattheyneedsearchnofurther。

Notanuncommoncasewhenpeopleareindolent。

Yes，Isaid；andtherecannotbeanyworsefaultinaguardianoftheStateandofthelaws。

True。

Theguardianthen，Isaid，mustberequiredtotakethelongercircuit，andtollatlearningaswellasatgymnastics，orhewillneverreachthehighestknowledgeofallwhich，aswewerejustnowsaying，ishispropercalling。

What，hesaid，isthereaknowledgestillhigherthanthis——higherthanjusticeandtheothervirtues？

Yes，Isaid，thereis。Andofthevirtuestoowemustbeholdnottheoutlinemerely，asatpresent——nothingshortofthemostfinishedpictureshouldsatisfyus。Whenlittlethingsareelaboratedwithaninfinityofpains，inorderthattheymayappearintheirfullbeautyandutmostclearness，howridiculousthatweshouldnotthinkthehighesttruthsworthyofattainingthehighestaccuracy！

Arightnoblethought；butdoyousupposethatweshallrefrainfromaskingyouwhatisthishighestknowledge？

Nay，Isaid，askifyouwill；butIamcertainthatyouhaveheardtheanswermanytimes，andnowyoueitherdonotunderstandmeor，asIratherthink，youaredisposedtobetroublesome；foryouhaveofbeentoldthattheideaofgoodisthehighestknowledge，andthatallotherthingsbecomeusefulandadvantageousonlybytheiruseofthis。

YoucanhardlybeignorantthatofthisIwasabouttospeak，concerningwhich，asyouhaveoftenheardmesay，weknowsolittle；

and，withoutwhich，anyotherknowledgeorpossessionofanykindwillprofitusnothing。Doyouthinkthatthepossessionofallotherthingsisofanyvalueifwedonotpossessthegood？ortheknowledgeofallotherthingsifwehavenoknowledgeofbeautyandgoodness？

Assuredlynot。

Youarefurtherawarethatmostpeopleaffirmpleasuretobethegood，butthefinersortofwitssayitisknowledgeYes。

Andyouareawaretoothatthelattercannotexplainwhattheymeanbyknowledge，butareobligedafteralltosayknowledgeofthegood？

Howridiculous！

Yes，Isaid，thattheyshouldbeginbyreproachinguswithourignoranceofthegood，andthenpresumeourknowledgeofit——forthegoodtheydefinetobeknowledgeofthegood，justasifweunderstoodthemwhentheyusetheterm’good’——thisisofcourseridiculous。

Mosttrue，hesaid。

Andthosewhomakepleasuretheirgoodareinequalperplexity；

fortheyarecompelledtoadmitthattherearebadpleasuresaswellasgood。

Certainly。

Andthereforetoacknowledgethatbadandgoodarethesame？

True。

Therecanbenodoubtaboutthenumerousdifficultiesinwhichthisquestionisinvolved。

Therecanbenone。

Further，dowenotseethatmanyarewillingtodoortohaveortoseemtobewhatisjustandhonourablewithoutthereality；butnooneissatisfiedwiththeappearanceofgood——therealityiswhattheyseek；inthecaseofthegood，appearanceisdespisedbyeveryone。

Verytrue，hesaid。

Ofthisthen，whicheverysoulofmanpursuesandmakestheendofallhisactions，havingapresentimentthatthereissuchanend，andyethesitatingbecauseneitherknowingthenaturenorhavingthesameassuranceofthisasofotherthings，andthereforelosingwhatevergoodthereisinotherthings，——ofaprinciplesuchandsogreatasthisoughtthebestmeninourState，towhomeverythingisentrusted，tobeinthedarknessofignorance？

Certainlynot，hesaid。

Iamsure，Isaid，thathewhodoesnotknownowthebeautifulandthejustarelikewisegoodwillbebutasorryguardianofthem；andI

suspectthatnoonewhoisignorantofthegoodwillhaveatrueknowledgeofthem。

That，hesaid，isashrewdsuspicionofyours。

AndifweonlyhaveaguardianwhohasthisknowledgeourStatewillbeperfectlyordered？

Ofcourse，hereplied；butIwishthatyouwouldtellmewhetheryouconceivethissupremeprincipleofthegoodtobeknowledgeorpleasure，ordifferentfromeither。

Aye，Isaid，Iknewallalongthatafastidiousgentlemanlikeyouwouldnotbecontentedwiththethoughtsofotherpeopleaboutthesematters。

True，Socrates；butImustsaythatonewholikeyouhaspassedalifetimeinthestudyofphilosophyshouldnotbealwaysrepeatingtheopinionsofothers，andnevertellinghisown。

Well，buthasanyonearighttosaypositivelywhathedoesnotknow？

Not，hesaid，withtheassuranceofpositivecertainty；hehasnorighttodothat：buthemaysaywhathethinks，asamatterofopinion。

Anddoyounotknow，Isaid，thatallmereopinionsarebad，andthebestofthemblind？Youwouldnotdenythatthosewhohaveanytruenotionwithoutintelligenceareonlylikeblindmenwhofeeltheirwayalongtheroad？

Verytrue。

Anddoyouwishtobeholdwhatisblindandcrookedandbase，whenotherswilltellyouofbrightnessandbeauty？

GLAUCON—SOCRATES

Still，Imustimploreyou，Socrates，saidGlaucon，nottoturnawayjustasyouarereachingthegoal；ifyouwillonlygivesuchanexplanationofthegoodasyouhavealreadygivenofjusticeandtemperanceandtheothervirtues，weshallbesatisfied。

Yes，myfriend，andIshallbeatleastequallysatisfied，butI

cannothelpfearingthatIshallfall，andthatmyindiscreetzealwillbringridiculeuponme。No，sweetsirs，letusnotatpresentaskwhatistheactualnatureofthegood，fortoreachwhatisnowinmythoughtswouldbeanefforttoogreatforme。Butofthechildofthegoodwhoislikesthim，Iwouldfainspeak，ifIcouldbesurethatyouwishedtohear——otherwise，not。

Byallmeans，hesaid，tellusaboutthechild，andyoushallremaininourdebtfortheaccountoftheparent。

Idoindeedwish，Ireplied，thatIcouldpay，andyoureceive，theaccountoftheparent，andnot，asnow，oftheoffspringonly；

take，however，thislatterbywayofinterest，andatthesametimehaveacarethatidonotrenderafalseaccount，althoughIhavenointentionofdeceivingyou。

Yes，wewilltakeallthecarethatwecan：proceed。

Yes，Isaid，butImustfirstcometoanunderstandingwithyou，andremindyouofwhatIhavementionedinthecourseofthisdiscussion，andatmanyothertimes。

What？

Theoldstory，thatthereisamanybeautifulandamanygood，andsoofotherthingswhichwedescribeanddefine；toallofthem’many’

isapplied。

True，hesaid。

Andthereisanabsolutebeautyandanabsolutegood，andofotherthingstowhichtheterm’many’isappliedthereisanabsolute；fortheymaybebroughtunderasingleidea，whichiscalledtheessenceofeach。

Verytrue。

Themany，aswesay，areseenbutnotknown，andtheideasareknownbutnotseen。

Exactly。

Andwhatistheorganwithwhichweseethevisiblethings？

Thesight，hesaid。

Andwiththehearing，Isaid，wehear，andwiththeothersensesperceivetheotherobjectsofsense？

True。

Buthaveyouremarkedthatsightisbyfarthemostcostlyandcomplexpieceofworkmanshipwhichtheartificerofthesensesevercontrived？

No，Ineverhave，hesaid。

Thenreflect；hastheearorvoiceneedofanythirdoradditionalnatureinorderthattheonemaybeabletohearandtheothertobeheard？

Nothingofthesort。

No，indeed，Ireplied；andthesameistrueofmost，ifnotall，theothersenses——youwouldnotsaythatanyofthemrequiressuchanaddition？

Certainlynot。

Butyouseethatwithouttheadditionofsomeothernaturethereisnoseeingorbeingseen？

Howdoyoumean？

Sightbeing，asIconceive，intheeyes，andhewhohaseyeswantingtosee；colourbeingalsopresentinthem，stillunlesstherebeathirdnaturespeciallyadaptedtothepurpose，theowneroftheeyeswillseenothingandthecolourswillbeinvisible。

Ofwhatnatureareyouspeaking？

Ofthatwhichyoutermlight，Ireplied。

True，hesaid。

Noble，then，isthebondwhichlinkstogethersightandvisibility，andgreatbeyondotherbondsbynosmalldifferenceofnature；forlightistheirbond，andlightisnoignoblething？

Nay，hesaid，thereverseofignoble。

Andwhich，Isaid，ofthegodsinheavenwouldyousaywasthelordofthiselement？Whoseisthatlightwhichmakestheeyetoseeperfectlyandthevisibletoappear？

Youmeanthesun，asyouandallmankindsay。

Maynottherelationofsighttothisdeitybedescribedasfollows？

How？

Neithersightnortheeyeinwhichsightresidesisthesun？

No。

Yetofalltheorgansofsensetheeyeisthemostlikethesun？

Byfarthemostlike。

Andthepowerwhichtheeyepossessesisasortofeffluencewhichisdispensedfromthesun？

Exactly。

Thenthesunisnotsight，buttheauthorofsightwhoisrecognisedbysight。

True，hesaid。

AndthisishewhomIcallthechildofthegood，whomthegoodbegatinhisownlikeness，tobeinthevisibleworld，inrelationtosightandthethingsofsight，whatthegoodisintheintellectualworldinrelationtomindandthethingsofmind。

Willyoubealittlemoreexplicit？hesaid。

Why，youknow，Isaid，thattheeyes，whenapersondirectsthemtowardsobjectsonwhichthelightofdayisnolongershining，butthemoonandstarsonly，seedimly，andarenearlyblind；theyseemtohavenoclearnessofvisioninthem？

Verytrue。

Butwhentheyaredirectedtowardsobjectsonwhichthesunshines，theyseeclearlyandthereissightinthem？

Certainly。

Andthesoulisliketheeye：whenrestinguponthatonwhichtruthandbeingshine，thesoulperceivesandunderstandsandisradiantwithintelligence；butwhenturnedtowardsthetwilightofbecomingandperishing，thenshehasopiniononly，andgoesblinkingabout，andisfirstofoneopinionandthenofanother，andseemstohavenointelligence？

Justso。

Now，thatwhichimpartstruthtotheknownandthepowerofknowingtotheknoweriswhatIwouldhaveyoutermtheideaofgood，andthisyouwilldeemtobethecauseofscience，andoftruthinsofarasthelatterbecomesthesubjectofknowledge；

beautifultoo，asarebothtruthandknowledge，youwillberightinesteemingthisothernatureasmorebeautifulthaneither；and，asinthepreviousinstance，lightandsightmaybetrulysaidtobelikethesun，andyetnottobethesun，sointhisothersphere，scienceandtruthmaybedeemedtobelikethegood，butnotthegood；thegoodhasaplaceofhonouryethigher。

Whatawonderofbeautythatmustbe，hesaid，whichistheauthorofscienceandtruth，andyetsurpassestheminbeauty；foryousurelycannotmeantosaythatpleasureisthegood？

Godforbid，Ireplied；butmayIaskyoutoconsidertheimageinanotherpointofview？

Inwhatpointofview？

Youwouldsay，wouldyounot，thatthesunisonlytheauthorofvisibilityinallvisiblethings，butofgenerationandnourishmentandgrowth，thoughhehimselfisnotgeneration？

Certainly。

Inlikemannerthegoodmaybesaidtobenotonlytheauthorofknowledgetoallthingsknown，butoftheirbeingandessence，andyetthegoodisnotessence，butfarexceedsessenceindignityandpower。

Glauconsaid，withaludicrousearnestness：Bythelightofheaven，howamazing！

Yes，Isaid，andtheexaggerationmaybesetdowntoyou；foryoumademeuttermyfancies。

Andpraycontinuetoutterthem；atanyrateletushearifthereisanythingmoretobesaidaboutthesimilitudeofthesun。

Yes，Isaid，thereisagreatdealmore。

Thenomitnothing，howeverslight。

Iwilldomybest，Isaid；butIshouldthinkthatagreatdealwillhavetobeomitted。

Youhavetoimagine，then，thattherearetworulingpowers，andthatoneofthemissetovertheintellectualworld，theotheroverthevisible。Idonotsayheaven，lestyoushouldfancythatIamplayinguponthename（’ourhanoz，orhatoz’）。MayIsupposethatyouhavethisdistinctionofthevisibleandintelligiblefixedinyourmind？

Ihave。

Nowtakealinewhichhasbeencutintotwounequalparts，anddivideeachofthemagaininthesameproportion，andsupposethetwomaindivisionstoanswer，onetothevisibleandtheothertotheintelligible，andthencomparethesubdivisionsinrespectoftheirclearnessandwantofclearness，andyouwillfindthatthefirstsectioninthesphereofthevisibleconsistsofimages。AndbyimagesImean，inthefirstplace，shadows，andinthesecondplace，reflectionsinwaterandinsolid，smoothandpolishedbodiesandthelike：Doyouunderstand？

Yes，Iunderstand。

Imagine，now，theothersection，ofwhichthisisonlytheresemblance，toincludetheanimalswhichwesee，andeverythingthatgrowsorismade。

Verygood。

Wouldyounotadmitthatboththesectionsofthisdivisionhavedifferentdegreesoftruth，andthatthecopyistotheoriginalasthesphereofopinionistothesphereofknowledge？

Mostundoubtedly。

Nextproceedtoconsiderthemannerinwhichthesphereoftheintellectualistobedivided。

Inwhatmanner？

Thus：——Therearetwosubdivisions，inthelowerorwhichthesoulusesthefiguresgivenbytheformerdivisionasimages；theenquirycanonlybehypothetical，andinsteadofgoingupwardstoaprincipledescendstotheotherend；inthehigherofthetwo，thesoulpassesoutofhypotheses，andgoesuptoaprinciplewhichisabovehypotheses，makingnouseofimagesasintheformercase，butproceedingonlyinandthroughtheideasthemselves。

Idonotquiteunderstandyourmeaning，hesaid。

ThenIwilltryagain；youwillunderstandmebetterwhenIhavemadesomepreliminaryremarks。Youareawarethatstudentsofgeometry，arithmetic，andthekindredsciencesassumetheoddandtheevenandthefiguresandthreekindsofanglesandthelikeintheirseveralbranchesofscience；thesearetheirhypotheses，whichtheyandeverybodyaresupposedtoknow，andthereforetheydonotdeigntogiveanyaccountofthemeithertothemselvesorothers；

buttheybeginwiththem，andgoonuntiltheyarriveatlast，andinaconsistentmanner，attheirconclusion？

Yes，hesaid，Iknow。